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09:45 <ncopa> something is broken with openjdk7
09:45 <ncopa> the build server hangs during build
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10:21 <ncopa> new version of icedtea seems to fix it
10:53 <pickfire> n
10:53 <pickfire> ncopa: Can we move s-nail to community? I think that is very stable.
10:55 <ncopa> where is s-nail?
10:55 <ncopa> it does not seem to be in testing
10:55 <ncopa> $ git log --grep s-nail
10:55 <ncopa> does not show anything
11:01 <ncopa> i had a copy in my "wip" dir though
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12:49 <ncopa> pickfire: i added s-nail package
12:49 <ncopa> im gonna push openssh 7.5 now
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15:15 <leitao> ncopa, would it be OK to skip check() for ppc64le during this 'bootstrap' phase?
15:17 <ncopa> possibly
15:17 <ncopa> are you hitting failing checks?
15:17 <leitao> for main/gd yes
15:18 <leitao> I usually fix make check tests, but, since we are in hurry for 3.6, I think we can do it later
15:18 <leitao> ncopa, creating a 'if' inside check() for ppc64le would be acceptable?
15:19 <ncopa> hm
15:19 <ncopa> <phone>
15:25 <* leitao> will grab something to eat. BRB
16:04 <ncopa> i think we dont want control that in the APKBUILD
16:04 <ncopa> we should probably skip the tests in /etc/abuild.conf
16:04 <ncopa> ...if that is possible
16:05 <ncopa> kaniini: is it possible to disable abuild check systemwide?
16:06 <pickfire> ncopa: Huh? I think I had sent one patch for s-nail
16:07 <kaniini> ncopa: options="!check" in abuild.conf may do it, also ABUILD_BOOTSTRAP=1
16:07 <pickfire> https://github.com/alpinelinux/aports/pull/1020
16:07 <pickfire> It was there but overwritten.
16:08 <pickfire> I hate github.
16:08 <ncopa> :)
16:08 <ncopa> its in testing now though
16:08 <pickfire> ncopa: No
16:08 <pickfire> Don't do it that way
16:08 <ncopa> no?
16:08 <pickfire> Ugly
16:08 <pickfire> I use s-nail to replace mail
16:09 <ncopa> do a new PR then
16:09 <duncaen> dont look at the history of the suid binary :P
16:09 <ncopa> can we get rid of the suid?
16:09 <duncaen> i think its not necessary in most setups
16:09 <ncopa> ok, maybe have it in separate package
16:10 <ncopa> so you'll have to work extra to actually get it
16:10 <pickfire> ncopa: http://ix.io/pe7
16:11 <duncaen> what do you patch?
16:11 <pickfire> ncopa: Ah, you missed the check.
16:12 <ncopa> duncaen: patch?
16:12 <pickfire> ncopa: Why not /usr/libexec?
16:13 <duncaen> pickfire: what do you patch in s-nail
16:13 <pickfire> duncaen: SID= NAIL=mail
16:13 <pickfire> As well as check()
16:14 <duncaen> ah, we have a patch in void for cross compiling, not sure if you need it
16:14 <ncopa> not yet i suppose
16:15 <ncopa> pickfire: how about symlink mail -> s-nail?
16:15 <ncopa> so you can use s-nail too if you want
16:15 <duncaen> we have NAIL=mail and symlinks
16:15 <ncopa> k
16:16 <pickfire> ncopa: That's a nice idea.
16:18 <ncopa> duncaen: how does that alternatives thing work?
16:18 <pickfire> What's the idea of changing excuberent tags to https://ctags.io/?
16:18 <pickfire> Universal ctags
16:18 <ncopa> pickfire: https://github.com/voidlinux/void-packages/blob/master/srcpkgs/s-nail/template
16:18 <pickfire> duncaen: Alternative as in void?
16:19 <pickfire> ncopa: I know that, I tried void before alpine.
16:19 <duncaen> we have xbps-alternatives, it just creates symlinks on install and if you use xbps-alternatives to switch it http://sprunge.us/HSJW
16:19 <pickfire> But alpine doesn't have that right?
16:19 <ncopa> we dont
16:20 <ncopa> thats why i ask
16:20 <ncopa> we have talked about implementing it
16:20 <duncaen> mail is the alternative group, second level the package, third level the linked file, source:target, if the source is relative its created in the target dir
16:20 <pickfire> Oh no, the reason why I don't use void is because of that xbps-*
16:20 <pickfire> Too long to type.
16:20 <duncaen> target:source
16:20 <pickfire> Their xbps-packages is too powerful.
16:21 <pickfire> Compared to alpine which is limited.
16:21 <duncaen> yea xbps-src is kind of big and hard to improve without being careful
16:21 <ncopa> duncaen: that looks interesting
16:21 <pickfire> ncopa: Ah, I long for the alternatives thing.
16:21 <ncopa> will have a closer look at that later
16:22 <kaniini> ncopa: did ABUILD_BOOTSTRAP work?
16:22 <pickfire> Because I can go python2 -> python3
16:22 <ncopa> kaniini: ah, just setting ABUILD_BOOTSTRAP should do it
16:23 <duncaen> one bad expirience was that we allowed to set bash as alternative to sh and the readline update broke the scripts that run at install time for users that used bash as sh :D
16:23 <pickfire> A
16:24 <pickfire> duncaen: IIRC there is duncaen in xbps as well.
16:24 <pickfire> Are you dev from there?
16:24 <ncopa> :D
16:24 <pickfire> Interesting
16:24 <duncaen> yes, im here to steal patches and share my fuckups :D
16:24 <pickfire> haha
16:25 <pickfire> duncaen: Lots of suckless suggested me to get void as well.
16:25 <pickfire> I like alpine but I don't like to stick everything to busybox.
16:25 <pickfire> Like I rather prefer ubase.
16:25 <pickfire> And iproute2
16:26 <duncaen> i like apk more after working with xbpss source and reading apk-tools a bit and i really like the stable branches
16:26 <ncopa> requires some work
16:26 <pickfire> duncaen: Sorry that I had switched to alpine from void.
16:26 <ncopa> maintenance work
16:27 <pickfire> ncopa: I hope alpine is in gsoc
16:27 <pickfire> So I can join.
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16:27 <ncopa> duncaen: we are working on ppc64le and s390x support now
16:28 <pickfire> ncopa: How do you do new support?
16:28 <ncopa> duncaen: iirc you beat us with the aarch64 support :)
16:28 <pickfire> I would like to see alpine running on various arm devices
16:28 <pickfire> Like odroid and pi.
16:29 <pickfire> I have quite a few models of those.
16:29 <duncaen> nice, i dont think we can add more architectures at the moment, qt5 is building currently since >11hours we dont have the resources :D
16:29 <ncopa> pickfire: we build crosscompiler, we build the base tools and then we set up a native build server
16:29 <ncopa> duncaen: i saw in #xbps
16:29 <pickfire> pi 1, pi 2, pi 3, c1, c2, u3
16:29 <ncopa> you need more build servers
16:29 <pickfire> ncopa: Yes
16:29 <pickfire> I would like to build on arm devices.
16:30 <duncaen> and we cross compile everything that is not x86 :s
16:30 <pickfire> ncopa: I think I can as well add travis-ci to my list of build servers.
16:30 <ncopa> duncaen: i know, i think we'd like to cross compile too
16:30 <ncopa> if not all, alot
16:31 <ncopa> pickfire: cant you use armhf packages?
16:31 <duncaen> why, isnt the arm64 box enough to build all arm packages?
16:31 <pickfire> Can, but not optimized like the one provided in alarm.
16:32 <pickfire> ncopa: I didn't know you are a spy in #xbps
16:32 <ncopa> pickfire: spy? im a contributor...
16:32 <pickfire> wow
16:32 <duncaen> would be a waste of time if we wouldnt communicate/share patches
16:32 <ncopa> https://github.com/voidlinux/xbps/pull/236
16:32 <ncopa> yeah
16:33 <pickfire> I am curious why don't we help each other?
16:33 <ncopa> lol
16:33 <ncopa> sorry pickfire but sometimes you just dont sound that smart :)
16:33 <ncopa> we do help eachother
16:33 <ncopa> why do you think i hang along in #xbps and duncan in here?
16:34 <pickfire> ncopa: Should I join there as well?
16:34 <ncopa> its up to you
16:34 <pickfire> Ah
16:35 <pickfire> ncopa: I wonder if we can do a -man and -doc separation because that's what I am really hoping for and as well no distro provides.
16:35 <ncopa> why?
16:35 <pickfire> Not just me, quite a few others as well.
16:35 <pickfire> -doc is total useless.
16:35 <pickfire> Fat=
16:36 <ncopa> not always
16:36 <ncopa> i think most packages have pretty small -doc?
16:36 <pickfire> I mean -doc generally contribute to the size of packages whereas -man wouldn't
16:36 <pickfire> And who would view an info page.
16:37 <duncaen> ah related to this, cross compiling and help2man sucks :D
16:37 <pickfire> duncaen: Do you guys do distributed compiling?
16:39 <duncaen> no we just have three build boxes one for glibc one for musl for all architectures and one for both arm64 libcs
16:40 <pickfire> ncopa: What about ours?
16:40 <duncaen> and updates like the current one, icu, libevent take ages rebuilding all the stuff with chromium/webkit bundled all browsers, libreoffice, qt
16:41 <pickfire> Yes
16:41 <duncaen> http://build.alpinelinux.org/
16:41 <ncopa> we have 1 big for x86_64, one big for x86, one aarch64 and one for armhf
16:41 <ncopa> the stable builders are containers
16:41 <pickfire> ncopa: Just 1?
16:41 <ncopa> yes one for each arch basically
16:42 <ncopa> i think we do the stable armhf branches on a wandboard
16:42 <duncaen> you dont use the aarch64 box to build arm packages?
16:42 <pickfire> duncaen: No
16:42 <ncopa> we have one x-gene that builds armhf
16:42 <ncopa> 8 core server
16:42 <ncopa> pretty good actually
16:42 <pickfire> ncopa: Why don't we use xbps build system?
16:42 <pickfire> I mean xbps build tracking system
16:43 <duncaen> and the thunderx?
16:43 <ncopa> and we havea thunder-x with 48 cores for aarch64
16:43 <ncopa> the reason is that the thunder-x cannot run 32bit arm
16:43 <duncaen> ah its just doing aarch64
16:43 <pickfire> Wow
16:43 <pickfire> 48 cores
16:43 <duncaen> oh didnt know this i thought this would work :s
16:44 <pickfire> ncopa: How large are alpine mirrors?
16:44 <ncopa> http://b2b.gigabyte.com/Density-Optimized/H270-T70-rev-100#ov
16:45 <ncopa> depends on which mirror
16:45 <pickfire> I like void linux sites, although bloated but served quite fast.
16:46 <duncaen> its github, thats why we dont have a https cert
16:46 <ncopa> duncaen: i think the worst thing that has been compiled when it comes to resource use
16:46 <ncopa> is llvm
16:46 <pickfire> Huh
16:46 <ncopa> the problem was link time
16:47 <ncopa> compiling with -j24 was no problem
16:47 <ncopa> but linking with -j24 was
16:47 <ncopa> i think LTO consumed extremely with memory
16:47 <duncaen> stop, i feel so bad for just having -j4 and building qt5 for >11hrs :D
16:48 <ncopa> :)
16:48 <ncopa> i think your problem is memory use
16:48 <ncopa> we had issues with armhf on wandbord
16:48 <ncopa> problem was not cpu but memory
16:48 <ncopa> and it ended up constantly swapping
16:48 <pickfire> Ah
16:49 <pickfire> ncopa: Who sponsors those boards?
16:49 <ncopa> gigabyte: https://alpinelinux.org/sponsors/
16:49 <ncopa> oh
16:49 <ncopa> we have a ppc64le and s390x from IBM too now
16:50 <pickfire> ncopa: wearetriple.com is quite nice too
16:50 <pickfire> Their mirror is nice.
16:51 <pickfire> © Copyright 2016 Alpine Linux Development Team all rights reserved | Privacy Policy
16:51 <pickfire> Lol
16:51 <pickfire> 2016
16:58 <mitchty> pickfire: http://www.contentious.com/2007/01/07/copyright-notice-is-the-year-really-necessary/
17:00 <mitchty> lawyers at my job have said don't change it once its there, the law doesn't behave the way you think
17:01 <pickfire> Ah
17:01 <mitchty> or leaving it out is better apparently, but talk to a real lawyer, even having just a copyright symbol and not the literal word "Copyright" can invalidate a notice
17:02 <mitchty> from what i remember/understand, changing the dates can cause issues with you basically saying the copyright only applies to things past that date, which means you could be stating copyright doesn't apply to earlier versions, but i'm not a lawyer and my eyes were more glazed over than a donut by that point
17:03 <pickfire> mitchty: What about © 2006-2016 suckless.org community | Impressum
17:03 <skarnet> I can confirm what you're saying
17:03 <skarnet> donuts *are* more interesting than copyright notices
17:03 <pickfire> Yeah
17:04 <pickfire> At least they are tasty
17:04 <pickfire> I have friends that study lawyar T_T
17:04 <pickfire> lawyer*
17:05 <mitchty> pickfire: i'm not a lawyer but same thing, you could be stating only stuff between 2006 and 2016 is under copyright, the rest not, again lawyer those questions, copyright is weird and not intuitive
17:05 <pickfire> Ah
17:06 <pickfire> So the one befor and after does not apply.
17:06 <mitchty> but i do know the copyright symbol isn't recognized as a valid statement of copyright, it has to be iirc Copyright or Copr or something else
17:06 <pickfire> Oh
17:06 <pickfire> But most used ©
17:06 <mitchty> the symbol not being legally recognized got drilled into me during that meeting :)
17:06 <pickfire> Rather "Copyright"
17:07 <mitchty> yeah, i dunno, its all greek to me, i just do Copyright now as its the most straightforward and "lawyer approved"
17:07 <pickfire> That's new to me as well.
17:07 <pickfire> I think I need to change my site as well.
17:07 <pickfire> Ah
17:08 <pickfire> Mine is CC-BY
17:08 <_ikke_> But don't you get copyright by default?
17:08 <mitchty> let me look up the doc
17:08 <pickfire> No returns
17:08 <pickfire> _ikke_: Yes
17:08 <pickfire> _ikke_: Others can get copyright by default as well.
17:11 <mitchty> looks like they updated it
17:11 <mitchty> The word Copyright, or the abbreviation Copr., or the symbol ©.
17:11 <mitchty> it was (C) i was thinking of rather sorry
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17:12 <mitchty> ok, reading through this legal stuff is making me want to go to sleep again
17:14 <pickfire> :)
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17:19 <TemptorSent> ncopa, fabled : How many people would likely grab pitchforks and torches if I removed bootchart from the default init?
17:49 <kaniini> probably very few
17:49 <kaniini> tbh