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00:52 <jirutka> I’ve finished upgrade of LLVM and its components to 4.0.0, replaced main/llvm with main/llvm4 (that provides=llvm) etc. https://github.com/alpinelinux/aports/pull/1261
00:56 <Shiz> nice, good work
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01:50 <tmh1999> great work !
02:25 <xentec> jirutka: really nice work! but why not shipping lld linker?
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03:29 <chatter29> hey guys
03:29 <chatter29> allah is doing
03:29 <chatter29> sun is not doing allah is doing
03:29 <chatter29> to accept Islam say that i bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and Muhammad peace be upon him is his slave and messenger
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10:17 <jirutka> xentec: I don’t know…?
10:32 <xentec> jirutka: llvm 4.0 ships with lld but I couldn't find it in the llvm4 package
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15:46 <jirutka> xentec: I’ve pushed lld to testing
15:47 <xentec> awesome!
15:48 <jirutka> xentec: please let me know if it actually works
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15:49 <xentec> jirutka: maybe not with linux kernel or gcc ;), but I'm going to link some various packages with it later and run some tests
17:03 <arch3y> can I ask a question not trying to offend here, but is alpine basically arch with openrc instead of systemd and libmusl instead of libc
17:04 <skarnet> no,
17:04 <skarnet> NEXT!
17:05 <arch3y> ok no issue here I respect the ability to build a system from scratch
17:05 <arch3y> wasnt trying to upset ppl
17:05 <skarnet> I know you weren't :)
17:06 <arch3y> k cool can you tell me how its different or is there a wiki link I havent found yet
17:06 <skarnet> I'm the wrong person for this. I just don't understand the fascination with Arch or how it's different from mainstream distros.
17:07 <skarnet> Why it's used as a comparison point, if you will.
17:07 <skarnet> What I do know is that Alpine is its own thing.
17:07 <arch3y> Ive been an arch user for a very long time
17:07 <arch3y> I can see that apline is its own thing, but it definitely takes after arch in some ways
17:08 <arch3y> I am looking to start contributing to alpine, so I was looking at the differences, but as I can tell the biggest hurdle will be libmusl
17:08 <skarnet> in what ways?
17:08 <arch3y> other then that building a pkg is still just a pkgbuild
17:08 <arch3y> well they have apkgbuild as a file
17:08 <_ikke_> arch3y: The first announcement of alpine: http://git.net/ml/linux.leaf.devel/2005-08/msg00039.html
17:08 <arch3y> _ikke_: thanks
17:09 <arch3y> my reasoning wanting to help is becuase it is somewhat similiar to arch
17:09 <_ikke_> The only thing similar is the same kind of way to define how to build a package
17:09 <arch3y> so the biggest difference is its meant to be smaller and pkgs run in memory
17:09 <arch3y> _ikke_: gotcha well that makes it easier to contribute for sure
17:09 <_ikke_> There are a lot of differences
17:10 <_ikke_> There are more differences than similarities
17:10 <arch3y> and its meant to be secure by default
17:10 <arch3y> whereas AL is not Im seeing that now
17:10 <_ikke_> so it's not a good description to describe alpine in terms of archlinux
17:10 <_ikke_> (I'm an avid arch user myself)
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17:11 <arch3y> I was just seeing similiarities but you are correct under the hood its very different
17:11 <arch3y> mainly with the way pkgbuilds for each pkg
17:12 <arch3y> I am a former developer of a archlinux based pentest distro, so I was hoping to be able to bring some of those pkgs to alpine if I can
17:12 <arch3y> so I have been reviewing it and working on testing out pkgs and making sure I understand how the system works before I get to far in
17:12 <_ikke_> arch3y: Sure, alpine is pretty receptive for packages
17:13 <arch3y> the main reason I left my former home is because the community was small and the other devs werent inclined to help it grow
17:13 <arch3y> so I hope to help out and contribute a large amount to the growth of alpine once I understand it
17:15 <arch3y> just have to find time to start working on it
17:34 <mitchty> ooh lld, i need to see how well ghc build times go down with that
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21:38 <clandmeter> arch3y, like our website states, we are small simple and secure. arch philosophy is different.
21:42 <clandmeter> some ppl are just unknown about the history of both arch and alpine and confuse about its evolution, you can see it for instance on arch wiki where ppl mention alpine is based on arch (which is completely bs).
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22:12 <arch3y> yeah I think tonight Ill take a spare laptop and drop alpine on it
22:12 <arch3y> I do agree arch is not built for security by default, alot of the pkgbuilding ideas are similiar which I do like
22:15 <Shiz> well, a single one, the APKBUILD format
22:15 <Shiz> :P
22:16 <arch3y> is there anything like namcap in apline
22:16 <arch3y> to make sure things are built to standards
22:17 <arch3y> and I assume pkgs are built in clean chroots or that can be accomplished
22:18 <Shiz> it's integrated in abuild itself, kinda
22:18 <Shiz> although probably not as extensive as namcap is
22:19 <arch3y> ok thats good, so it could be a feature added down the road
22:20 <Shiz> i dont think theres proper chroot separation yes, but i agree that it's something desirable
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22:48 <arch3y> it would be ideal to install say a base of pkgs needed to build
22:48 <arch3y> then it would insure that each apkgbuild had the correct deps to run a pkg
23:00 <arch3y> Ill find this out for myself ofc, but it alpine meant to be versatile meaning can it be used as a desktop or a server or a media server etc
23:00 <Shiz> yeah
23:01 <Shiz> i ran it on my desktop for a while
23:01 <Shiz> run it on most of my server
23:01 <Shiz> friend uses it on his laptop
23:01 <arch3y> cause I notcied it runs in ram or at least at the start
23:01 <arch3y> Im still a bit confused by that part but I plan on doing an install after I eat so Ill figure it out
23:01 <Shiz> just the livecd runs from ram
23:01 <Shiz> alpine can run from ram, it can also be installed to the hard disk
23:02 <Shiz> setup-alpine will ask you what kind of install you want
23:02 <arch3y> kk
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23:02 <arch3y> Ill have to get used to openrc, but I assume pkgbuilders are bringing in init files for each pkg they build
23:02 <Shiz> what do you mean by bringing in?
23:03 <arch3y> well say a person builds a pkg that needs a service file to run
23:03 <arch3y> as in it runs a daemon, that builder is providing the file needed to start the service
23:04 <Shiz> those files are part of aports
23:04 <Shiz> they don't really get used by the builder except for being packaged up
23:05 <Shiz> in the final package file
23:05 <Shiz> :P
23:05 <arch3y> yeah as the apkg is basically a tarball of sorts which is dropped and unpacked on the filesystem once its installed
23:05 <arch3y> so a dude just asked about the alpine iso in the archlinux channel lol
23:05 <Shiz> if you mean apk, it's a bit more than that
23:06 <Shiz> it also has a signature and pre/post-install trigger scripts
23:06 <arch3y> well yeah I dont know all of the details of how pacman works either
23:06 <Shiz> but yeah
23:06 <arch3y> but yeah and the postinstall and checks sigs if needed
23:06 <Shiz> in its base, it's two tarballs
23:06 <Shiz> concat'd together
23:06 <Shiz> control tarball, data tarball
23:06 <arch3y> so like stage1 and stage2 tarballs of gentoo
23:06 <arch3y> cause I remember them saying it was closer to gentoo
23:07 <Shiz> nope
23:07 <Shiz> for one, stage1/2 gentoo tarballs are entire FS images
23:07 <Shiz> and they represent different levels of the build process
23:07 <Shiz> in .apk the control tarball just has the pre/post-install trigger scripts and possibly some other stuff
23:07 <Shiz> while the data tarball gets extracted to /
23:08 <arch3y> understood for a pkg specifically
23:08 <arch3y> I got offtopic
23:09 <arch3y> time to find my charger so I can do an actual install
23:09 <Shiz> :)
23:10 <arch3y> I promise Im not as noob as I sound lol just every variation of linux is a bit different its why we enjoy linux we can make it into whatever we desire
23:10 <Shiz> wasnt assuming anything like that
23:11 <arch3y> and Im assuming any patch files are in ports as well to be applied to a pkg to make it compliant with alpine standards
23:11 <arch3y> nah I know sometimes too many questions can make ppl question a user
23:11 <arch3y> but ask the right questions in a sane manner and its all good
23:11 <Shiz> yeah
23:11 <Shiz> (re: the former)
23:12 <Shiz> all auxiliary files that are not part of the upstream package are stored in aports
23:12 <Shiz> well, within certain limits
23:12 <Shiz> as long as they come from us
23:12 <Shiz> :P
23:12 <Shiz> or are vetted by us, as with some patches
23:14 <arch3y> yeah I mean every patch I apply is to keep things fhs compliant
23:14 <arch3y> so Id think that wouldnt be too big of an issue
23:15 <arch3y> man too many ppl are getting arch and alpine confused they keep joing archlinux and asking a question
23:15 <arch3y> about alpine but its apparent they probably shouldnt be using either in the first place
23:25 <Shiz> sigh...
23:26 <arch3y> just a heads up the isos verify fine
23:27 <arch3y> there definetly some user error, its never fun when a distro gets popular and in comes the ppl who probably shouldnt be using it lol
23:27 <arch3y> but its also a good thing to so its a trade off
23:27 <Shiz> what do you mean "shouldn't be using"?
23:28 <arch3y> well its like how when everyone started installing arch cuase it was popular
23:28 <arch3y> and but they struggle so much they probably should use mint
23:28 <arch3y> or even ubuntu
23:28 <Shiz> eh, i'd like to at least try to welcome everybody
23:28 <arch3y> I think distros like arch, alpine, gentoo, and slack are for advanced users
23:28 <Shiz> it being hard to use is in a lot of cases a bug
23:28 <arch3y> yeah everyone can learn for sure
23:29 <Shiz> i discard notions of 'for advanced users'
23:29 <Shiz> don't like elitism
23:29 <Shiz> :P
23:29 <arch3y> Im not trying to promote elitism
23:29 <arch3y> but sometimes it can be difficult to spend hours helping somone do something like partition a hdd
23:29 <arch3y> is my main point everyone can learn but they need to willing to want to help themselves a bit too
23:30 <Shiz> fair
23:30 <Shiz> (also, good thing setup-disk can and will unless told not to autopartition for you)
23:30 <Shiz> :p
23:30 <arch3y> for sure
23:31 <arch3y> when I was building ArchStrike we added an installer and got alot more users, but we also got ppl that even messed up a click click installer
23:31 <arch3y> so it takes all kinds
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23:56 <arch3y> I like the builtin fastest mirror checker into setup-alpine
23:57 <arch3y> ash confused me when it ran it said it was changing mypassword but never prompted me to type it in, I had to hit enter a few times but meh