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00:06 <welshjf> Hello, I have an easily reproduced crash in ncurses when TERM=linux, optimization is >= 1, and wide chars are enabled. I suspect it's an upstream bug but so far only seen in Alpine
00:13 <welshjf> Oh, it appears to be fixed somewhere between 6.0 and the latest patch release.
00:16 <welshjf> test case is simply initscr(); addch(ACS_VLINE); getch(); endwin();
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03:59 <pickfire> src/MediaInfo_CLI_GNU_FromSource/MediaInfo/Project/GNU/CLI/configure: line 15197: libmediainfo-config: command not found
03:59 <pickfire> How come?
03:59 <pickfire> Is Corey Oliver <corey.jon.oliver@gmail.com> here?
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04:52 <avih> pickfire: don't post email addresses publicly.
04:53 <pickfire> avih: Oh, okay. Sorry.
04:54 <avih> (even if they're easy to find elsewhere e,g, via git commits etc)
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08:20 <ScrumpyJack> morning
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09:18 <Kruge_> Morning
09:20 <scv> night
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11:53 <rollniak> Hello everyone
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16:04 <jalt> Hi, what is the easiest way to increase console/tty resolution (preferably without having to add drivers)? Using the vanilla kernel version of 32bit alpine under virtualbox, booting with extlinux.
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16:04 <pickfire> Huh? You can do that?
16:04 <pickfire> jalt: Maybe try nomodeset?
16:07 <jalt> pickfire, removing nomodeset from the boot options had no visible effect. should i also append vga=795 or that a vesa only thing?
16:08 <pickfire> Huh, I am not sure then. I know not using nomodeset will increase the size.
16:09 <jalt> tried with vga=795 and it was unrecognized. the list it provides is only for pure vga and the options F01 to F07 are still limited to 80 chars...
16:11 <jalt> i will try https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Uvesafb now
16:16 <jalt> success!
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16:44 <yGweSm1OzVHe> parazyd: any plans to provide also an alpine based version of heads?
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17:58 <parazyd> yGweSm1OzVHe: hardly for now
17:58 <parazyd> but feel free to experiment
17:58 <parazyd> i believe the build system is easy to understand and port
17:58 <parazyd> should be far simpler than devuan actually
17:59 <parazyd> i did have in mind to implement alpine support in my arm-sdk though, so if i start upstreaming that code... maybe something nice happens :)
18:01 <kaniini> i can't take devuan seriously
18:01 <kaniini> https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom/
18:01 <kaniini> like, for real?
18:01 <parazyd> meh
18:01 <parazyd> yeah for now devuan jessie is the same as debian jessie (without systemd)
18:02 <parazyd> afterwards we start the real work, and killing debian's dumb choices
18:04 <parazyd> kaniini: what do you find bad with that text?
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18:05 <kaniini> forking debian (a distribution that needs modernization) just to keep it in the stoneage seems a bad idea
18:05 <ericnoan> i thought the issue was political?
18:05 <parazyd> that's what i mentioned
18:05 <ericnoan> or... sentemental
18:05 <parazyd> with ascii (release after jessie) we start the real work
18:05 <kaniini> yes, systemd is bad, but the manifesto devuan uses to justify the fork demonstrates bad thinking
18:06 <kaniini> will devuan also say things like
18:06 <kaniini> "apt sucks! were switching back to dselect!"
18:06 <parazyd> openrc as a base, more recent packages, etc.
18:06 <ericnoan> keyboards suck! we're switching back to punch-hole cards
18:06 <kaniini> exactly eric
18:07 <kaniini> it just screams "old man yells at cloud" to me
18:07 <TBB> "we're going back to 3.11 for workgroups!"
18:07 <parazyd> debian sucks in general imho, but it's pretty much a standard besides redhat
18:07 <Xe> out of all of those, shepherd is probably the most interesting
18:07 <ericnoan> i expect they had a reason to fork it
18:07 <Xe> ericnoan: it was because of systemd
18:07 <kaniini> yes, to get rid of systemd
18:07 <ericnoan> ah right
18:07 <kaniini> systemd is hardly the real problem debian has
18:08 <parazyd> it is one of them
18:08 <kaniini> it is a problem debian has, but it is hardly the most severe
18:08 <Xe> it's actually worse because they neutered systemd of a lot of its useful features
18:09 <parazyd> keeping etc/init.d with systemd was a ridiculous move
18:09 <ericnoan> i just set up a temp VM for some testing, and carelessly selected the debian image, i was very confused until i looked at the packages version numbers
18:09 <Xe> parazyd: even centos still has init.d
18:09 <ericnoan> i was quick to switch image heh
18:09 <parazyd> that's just wrong
18:09 <TBB> compatibility issue, mostly
18:09 <parazyd> and a shitty practice
18:09 <kaniini> i mean, i will definitely not disagree that the way debian did the systemd migration was completely screwed
18:10 <kaniini> but it is systemic of a larger problem
18:10 <kaniini> the main reason why the systemd migration was botched was NMUs in my opinion
18:10 <TBB> namely, the large problem; the size of both the package database and the userbase
18:11 <Xe> http://imgur.com/grlsdV2 <-- my fedora server has these initscripts in it
18:11 <TBB> it's difficult to move fast and modernize when so many people depend on your product to stay the same
18:11 <Xe> (figures identd wouldn't have a systemd unit)
18:11 <kaniini> if you have to wait X days for a patch to be idle before engaging in an NMU... it slows down the migration process
18:12 <Xe> didn't debian nix out per-user services in systemd or some crazy shit like that?
18:12 <kaniini> tech-ctte failure to scale is another issue
18:13 <kaniini> alpine policy learns from those mistakes and does not repeat them ;)
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18:17 <Xe> there's one problem i don't think any of us can get around
18:17 <Xe> computers can scale human error from one time per second to billions
18:18 <TBB> I fully support the ancient model where reading and interpreting scripture is reserved for the priest class only!...
18:18 <kaniini> pfft
18:18 <kaniini> bard class > priest class
18:19 <TBB> (no not really, but sometimes I wish people would have more understanding of the tech they use)
18:19 <TBB> anyway, time for me to use public transport tech to get back to home base
18:19 <kaniini> public you say, sounds fancy
18:20 <TBB> well, exotic it is, at least :D
18:20 <kaniini> oh, i'm sorry
18:20 <Xe> does s6 have the idea of per-user services?
18:21 <kaniini> sure
18:21 <kaniini> just fire up an s6
18:21 <kaniini> on any dir you want
18:21 <kaniini> and done
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18:22 <kaniini> https://devuan.org/ui/img/if.png
18:22 <kaniini> i am sorry but this just looks like a logo someone who had too much lennart-ware in their life would make
18:22 <kaniini> you should just say what you mean
18:22 <kaniini> "watch out for crappy software by lennartp"
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20:03 <hiro> i don't want init freedom, i want freedom from freedesktop, wayland, dbus, logind, upowerd, etc. also
20:03 <hiro> systemd truly is the smallest evil in this compilation :(
20:03 <hiro> oh
20:03 <hiro> and don't forget pulse fucking audio
20:04 <hiro> alsa was bad enough after a perfectly fine oss
20:04 <hiro> i dont want shit like regedit for linux
20:06 <TBB> it's difficult to avoid, so many seem to reimplement it
20:07 <TBB> gnome has theirs, xfce has theirs...
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20:22 <kaniini> i'm not sure what is so bad about wayland, but i havent looked at it
20:22 <kaniini> it's not like X is actually good :p
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20:26 <TBB> it's not that bad, I believe my phone uses Wayland for its UI
20:26 <c00kiemon5ter> what phone?
20:27 <scv> real hackers can hear the bits flowing in the system bus
20:27 <scv> they don't need no damn interface
20:27 <scv> not even a console
20:28 <TBB> c00kiemon5ter: good old Jolla
20:29 <TBB> gotta be pretty happy getting security updates over 3 years after release :)
20:32 <parazyd> hiro: gentoo is close
20:33 <TBB> and it pays the price for that
20:34 <hiro> TBB: it's difficult to learn *what* to avoid. gnome and xfce have to be avoided obviously.
20:34 <scv> i'm pretty happy i still get regular security updates (even selinux policy) for my note4
20:34 <scv> was not expecting that tbh
20:34 <scv> after all this time
20:34 <hiro> TBB: being aware there even are alternatives requires a lot of confidence though, cause horrible evangelists try to keep you from quitting their horrible software sects
20:35 <hiro> TBB: wayland is never gonna kill X
20:35 <hiro> TBB: so in the future we'll have to deal with BOTH
20:35 <hiro> TBB: that's worth than nothing.
20:35 <hiro> *worse
20:36 <hiro> TBB: i'm not clear what the advantage of jolla is over maemo on my n900
20:36 <hiro> TBB: but i do have problems with the stupid freedesktop, dbus, etc. shit on the n900
20:36 <hiro> TBB: if i had to guess i'd assume jolla just took that bullshit further without any benefit.
20:37 <hiro> TBB: cause the n900 works JUST FINE, which is surprising considering that it's just debian shit with a few horrible GUI programs clamped on top
20:37 <scv> speaking of dbus on a phone, these *wonderful* (/s) grandstream desk phones heavily rely on dbus and you can really feel the latency on every single action
20:37 <scv> keypress to dial? that's a dbus signal
20:38 <hiro> scv: hahaha
20:38 <scv> i busted open the firmware to see why they performed so poorly and subsequently lost the contents of my stomach
20:39 <hiro> scv: condolences
20:39 <scv> :p
20:40 <TBB> hiro, I had plenty of love for the n900, simply because of the keyboard and a couple of usable apps for it. shamefull it wasn't quite as high quality as Nokias in general (the USB connector problem was just sad, just like the SIM slot problem)
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20:42 <* Kooda> still uses his N900, even thought about putting Alpine on it.
20:42 <TBB> towards the end my n900 got slower and slower tho, it had to be factory reset to get back what responsiveness it had. that problem I've never had with Jolla, and as I said, I mostly appreciate Jolla for still providing the users with frequent security updates. then of course, the hardware quality and the production quality are even worse
20:44 <hiro> TBB: i agree about the quality, but for that time, the outer shell for example is quite sturdy
20:44 <hiro> TBB: i'd expect it was just lack of experience with micro-usb connectors
20:45 <hiro> TBB: i can't really blame them for doing this on purpose
20:45 <hiro> TBB: not sure what problem the sim slot has?
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20:47 <TBB> it starts having problems keeping connection to the sim. a temporary fix was to place some paper between the battery and the back cover but after a year or two not even that pressed the sim to the contacts
20:49 <TBB> my first n900 had the micro usb problem but they replaced the unit very swiftly
20:52 <TBB> I even had the N950 for two months
20:55 <TBB> unfortunately it never made it to production; Nokia had learned from the N900 so the hardware was nicer, but since the software was mostly designed to run on the N9, it didn't receive much love for keyboard use
20:55 <TBB> but the keyboard was -nice-
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21:42 <hiro> typing on a bb q10 here i agree the keyboard of n90 is shit
21:43 <TBB> well, I also had the earlier model, the N810. the keyboard in -that- was shit :D
21:45 <hiro> i also once tried n xperia x1
21:45 <hiro> still with fucking windows mobile
21:45 <TBB> ah, xperia. that'll probably be my next phone, once the official Sailfish integration is finished
21:46 <hiro> looking back i can finally understand why touchscreen shit eventually became so successful
21:46 <Xe> hiro: it's the least common normie denominator
21:46 <Xe> most common*
21:46 <hiro> back then i firmly believed hardware keyboards are superior
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21:47 <Xe> (tbh i wish my phone had a hardware keyboard, i was so fast on it)
21:47 <hiro> BUT i hadnt tried a hardware keyboard that actually was superior until quite a few years later
21:47 <hiro> that only happened with the nokia e72
21:47 <TBB> I quite like the n900 one; sure, it wasn't ideal but it was good enough
21:48 <TBB> and yes, I considered it faster and overall better than any touchscreen keyboard
21:48 <hiro> the one in this q10 is much smaller and still more productive
21:48 <hiro> *than the one in the n900
21:48 <hiro> the only thing i'm missing is a hardware hangup button
21:49 <hiro> but thats a software problem
21:49 <hiro> they could've made the space key hang up calls
21:50 <hiro> but they are retards and just added a keyboard without enough consideration
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