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01:48 Topic for
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07:44 <asdlfjasdklfj> can someone help me deciding what type of alpine to get?
07:44 <dminca> depends on where you'll use it
07:44 <asdlfjasdklfj> why is there 'Runs from RAM' along Extended version. I thought all do
07:44 <dminca> if you're using for production, I suggest 4.3
07:45 <asdlfjasdklfj> and does the raspberry pi one support even audio there? I think previous version wasn't working (jack on pi wasn't working, no audio)
07:46 <dminca> why alpine on raspberry pi?
07:46 <asdlfjasdklfj> just to try, why not?
07:46 <dminca> it lacks 'some' media drivers due to their complexity of building them
07:47 <asdlfjasdklfj> but that is just as a bonus, mainly I am concerned of what type to get for regular device. the mentioned raspberry pi missing audio is aside
07:47 <dminca> just use the edge one :)
07:47 <dminca> it has latest packages
07:47 <asdlfjasdklfj> what can I expect from vanilla release?
07:48 <dminca> I didn't have any issues with it
07:48 <Chlorophytus> Vanilla release is not protected with Grsec
07:48 <asdlfjasdklfj> but otherwise it has the same modules etc.?
07:48 <dminca> why do you need protection with Grsec?
07:48 <asdlfjasdklfj> I don't
07:48 <dminca> you're just going to use it on a raspberry
07:48 <dminca> yeah so edge would be a good try
07:48 <asdlfjasdklfj> (the raspbbery pi mention was just a bonus, I mean using Alpine on regular device)
07:49 <dminca> yeah, a bonus candy shipped via Amazon Air
07:49 <dminca> lol :p
07:49 <dminca> you never know until you try
07:49 <dminca> :)
07:50 <asdlfjasdklfj> vanilla has "suitable for debugging" there. why.
07:50 <asdlfjasdklfj> that it allows reading something more from the functionality of kernel due to lack of grsec?
07:52 <asdlfjasdklfj> also I would like to try to compile the kernel (at first just recreate the one included in Vanilla for example). Is that possible?
07:59 <TBB> naturally. get aports, have a look, modify if you want, build. done.
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09:06 <hiro> ^7heo:
09:06 <hiro> [dev] [slock] 1.4 no longer working on freebsd with ldap/kerberos
09:09 <hiro> ^7heo: it's a mail from today
09:10 <hiro> ah no, 21st
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11:03 <^7heo> hiro: meh
11:03 <^7heo> it's not unix anyway
11:03 <^7heo> it does too much
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11:26 <ginjachris> Greetings!
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11:30 <^7heo> ginjachris: greetings.
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12:08 <Kruge> Anyone using php7 and php7-redis on 3.5? I get a warning that php can't find the redis.so
12:08 <Kruge> It exists, but not in the place php is looking for it. It's in /usr/lib/php7/modules now, apparently
12:11 <Kruge> (while php is looking in /usr/lib/php7)
12:12 <hiro> ^7heo: bsd?
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12:15 <^7heo> hiro: was bsd?
12:16 <^7heo> Kruge: symlink it ;)
12:16 <^7heo> Kruge: and report the issue to the maintainer of both packages, so the discuss about what is to be done there.
12:17 <avih> ncopa: i noticed that with some (probably buggy) terminals, the apk progress bar ends up with a new line with each bar update. that's because the bar reaches the very last column of the terminals and on some terminals if that happens on the bottom-most line then it does a newline. some other progress bars avoid it by printing upto width-1, e.g. debian's apt, and others. i built apk-tools and changed it to do the same, and it fixes the issue. my patch t
12:17 <avih> print.c was either to change "bar_width = apk_get_screen_width() - 7;" to -8, or change apk_get_screen_width() to return whatever it returns -1. both approaches fix the issue. would you consider making this change?
12:17 <Kruge> symlinked, can't find symbols
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12:26 <Kruge> Filed at https://bugs.alpinelinux.org/issues/7064
12:34 <Kruge> I suspect this is linked: https://bugs.alpinelinux.org/issues/7048
12:34 <avih> (changing -7 to -8 will probably be better, because it doesn't add any more vagueness ;) )
12:35 <Kruge> There's no php-redis package in community, and the fix to stay with using php7.0 is to use community
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12:41 <terra> guys, anyone tried to fake missing sysmbols for musl? I can't run UrbanTerror just because of one symbol missing. http://www.urbanterror.info/forums/topic/34927-missing-symbol-on-musl-libc/
12:42 <Shiz> you can LD_PRELOAD a .so containing the symbol
12:43 <terra> Shiz: it is a glibc symbol
12:43 <Shiz> yes
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12:45 <terra> I thought If I can patch the musl to cantain that symbol as an alias of corresponding one
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12:46 <asldfkjasdlkfja> how would one startx in specific resolution? (like 1280x720)
12:47 <Shiz> there is no corresponding symbol in musl
12:47 <Shiz> asldfkjasdlkfja: Xorg.conf
12:49 <terra> asldfkjasdlkfja: add this to .xinitrc -> xrandr --otput HDMI1 --mode "1280x720"
12:49 <terra> * --output
12:50 <asldfkjasdlkfja> terra: what if I want it on internal display (laptop monitor)
12:50 <terra> HDMI1 --> LVDS1
12:51 <terra> check "xrandr" command output if "1280x720" available
12:52 <terra> If no such mode listed, you have to assign it.
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12:57 <asldfkjasdlkfja> where in xinitrc should the command be? start?
12:58 <ncopa> avih: ask fabled
12:58 <terra> asldfkjasdlkfja: do you launch x11 from console?
12:58 <avih> fabled: ^ re apk progress bar. ncopa thx.
12:58 <fabled> avih, if you have patch, please submit that for review
12:58 <asldfkjasdlkfja> yes, I type startx
13:00 <terra> ok then.. just add xrandr line just before last line only last line begins with "exec"
13:00 <asldfkjasdlkfja> thanks so much terra
13:00 <terra> you're welcome
13:00 <hiro> ^7heo: the it's not unix part
13:01 <asldfkjasdlkfja> I was worrying a lot about it. Information is everything they said.
13:01 <hiro> ^7heo: what does it's referto?
13:13 <terra> xrandr
13:19 <avih> fabled: https://github.com/alpinelinux/apk-tools/pull/4
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13:55 <^7heo> hiro: ping
13:55 <^7heo> hiro: are you using dwm-menu?
14:00 <fabled> avih, thanks, looks good. i need to run now, but will probably merge it early tm.
14:01 <avih> fabled: thx.
14:09 <^7heo> hiro: I mean dmenu.
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14:40 <hiro> ^7heo: no, i dont use dwm's dmenu
14:41 <^7heo> ok, good for you.
14:41 <hiro> cause they kept on pikeshedding it
14:42 <hiro> wmii kept on breaking cause they changed dmenu in the meantimes
14:42 <hiro> so they just copied it over i think. most people probably wouldn't notice the difference
14:43 <hiro> actually, now that ithink of it i might be using a patched dmenu somewhere
14:43 <hiro> cause the default became so stupid i definitely fixed it at some point
14:43 <hiro> but i don't remember :)
14:44 <hiro> anyway, probably its wimenu and customized dmenu
14:44 <TBB> I've got a bit of a scenario that I'm looking a solution to, once again
14:45 <TBB> now, if I understand correctly, using repo tags in APKBUILD build time dependencies is not supported
14:46 <TBB> (to be honest, that would be a bad idea anyway)
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14:47 <madspo> hi all
14:47 <madspo> is it possible toinstall alpine using zfs partitions?
14:47 <TBB> in short: yes
14:48 <madspo> TBB: using the default installation iso or ...?
14:50 <TBB> that I don't know; I don't do ZFS
14:52 <TBB> now, I wonder what the correct procedure would be to handle such build time dependencies. the way I do builds is in a one-use chroot that I restore from a snapshot and generate a build script inside the chroot that I then run; I can always do "apk update; apk add package@tag" in the chroot before running the build script but somehow I dislike that idea even though it works
14:53 <TemptorSent> madspo: At current, you have to do the zfs setup manually. You'll need the spl and zfs modules loaded, then setup a chroot from a running system and install there using zfs's temp root feature.
14:54 <TBB> one solution would be to drop the tags for in-house repositories that host such packages, but at that point I'd run into a problem with customized versions of packages that also exist in Alpine's official repos
14:55 <madspo> is there any tutorial that i can use for testing purposes?
14:55 <terra> madspo: You have to have a zfs enabled kernel+initramfs. Take a look at initramfs + zfs on Arch Linux wiki
14:56 <terra> madspo: I'm not using ZFS but it is doable if you use a zfs enabled kernel from Arch.
14:57 <terra> madspo: My kernel supports ZFS but I don't use
14:58 <TemptorSent> madspo: If you want to test work in progress code, you can try using the zfs feature in a profile under this: https://github.com/TemptorSent/aports/tree/mkimage-refactor-scripts/scripts/mkimage
14:58 <madspo> i wanted to see the performance alpine+zfs and docker
14:58 <TemptorSent> madspo: I have it working on my test system at least.
14:58 <TemptorSent> As a host or as a guest?
14:58 <madspo> docker host
14:58 <TemptorSent> As a host it should work quite well.
15:00 <TemptorSent> madspo: There is not yet any installer support in mkimage, but what you can do is pass rdinit=/bin/sh at the boot prompt and install it directly.
15:00 <TemptorSent> madspo: the initramfs image includes the zfs tools.
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15:22 <kahiru> alpine on zfs would be a killer for all sorts of homemade NASes and stuff like that
15:22 <kahiru> I'm really looking forward to it having support in the installer
15:24 <darkfader> i've switched on lvm-cache for now, zfs will be on the new server, didn't have space to migrate to zfs remotely :/
15:25 <kahiru> lvm-cache?
15:26 <darkfader> lvm has some ssd caching since a few years
15:26 <darkfader> thin pools too, but for those the tools are well-hidden in alpine
15:26 <darkfader> i'm gonna use it for a month or two till it's zfs time
15:27 <kahiru> oh, cool
15:27 <kahiru> could it be compared to bcache?
15:31 <darkfader> yes, difference is that it really tracks hot blocks so the effect is building up more slowly
15:31 <darkfader> but it doesn't burn through the ssd as much
15:31 <darkfader> and uh
15:31 <darkfader> you can turn it on without recreating your storage
15:31 <darkfader> that's the nice one
15:32 <darkfader> and it's a per LV decision
15:32 <kahiru> nice
15:32 <darkfader> so i got now like 20 cached ones and 10 uncached
15:33 <darkfader> bcache is more ZOOOOOOOOOM performance-wise
15:34 <kahiru> you almost make me regret not using it
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15:53 <kahiru> darkfader: is there some handy guide on using it or did you just follow the manpages?
15:54 <darkfader> https://gist.github.com/FlorianHeigl/caf2ea6b66d05cd264509493db3b7869
15:54 <darkfader> there's manuals too
15:54 <darkfader> i read a few howtos, over a few years, before i did switch
15:55 <darkfader> you need to check how big the "cachemetadata" volume needs to be, there are some traps ;-)
16:02 <kahiru> cool, thanks
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16:16 <untoreh> bcache is writeback, rhel lvmcache guide says the metadata volumes needs to be 1000x smaller than the cache volume, it would be nice to compare lvmcache with zfs l2arc and the stuff you usually find in ssd boosted hdds
16:17 <darkfader> would be nice
16:18 <darkfader> but most comparisons are like on a laptop level
16:18 <darkfader> (as in sshd)
16:18 <darkfader> a benchmark on a vm host with 50 vms would be helpful, plus tracking filling IO and such
16:18 <darkfader> but that's just too intense
16:19 <darkfader> i think lvm-cache is a bad iops booster on random stuff
16:19 <darkfader> really bad
16:19 <darkfader> but for tuning something that's running all year, it's likely the best
16:33 <koollman> darkfader: all cache systems would be bad on purely random stuff, pretty much by definition
16:33 <koollman> the trick is to find out if what you actually use often would fit in the cache or not
16:34 <koollman> which is pretty hard at the block level, but it can provide some boosts for 'general' use
16:34 <darkfader> koollman: most define "least recently used" or such, and have no real idea of "hot"
16:34 <darkfader> yeah
16:34 <darkfader> bcache is really good for the general case
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16:37 <darkfader> 2015 i carried a big fat supermicro to CCC, 4 nodes and each with a 950pro as bcache device in front of the disks, then lizardfs on top and on each running an ftp
16:37 <darkfader> so it was a really nice ftp cluster with ssd cached backend
16:38 <darkfader> because i really wanted to see an actual, non-benchmark use
16:38 <hiro> darkfader: nice idea :)
16:39 <darkfader> snapped my back though so economically it would have been cheaper to buy a server there :/
16:39 <darkfader> but still, was a good and more trustable benchmark
16:40 <koollman> darkfader: ideally I would like ARC algorithm (like zfs) in a bcache-like system. But of course, one might also just use zfs at this point :)
16:40 <hiro> darkfader: what was the result?
16:40 <koollman> seems a bit smarter than mere lru
16:40 <hiro> darkfader: people uploaded all their porn and dvdrips or what?
16:40 <darkfader> hiro: bcache hitrate never gets good, but it's enough to even out IO latencty
16:40 <darkfader> i.e. because it flattens random IO
16:41 <darkfader> hehe, conference recordings were a large part of what was fetched
16:41 <darkfader> so even a perfectly legal ftp (would have been) can be fine
16:42 <darkfader> so on that end, the result was i ran diskscrub
16:42 <koollman> also bcache supports writeback, so that's a pretty good start on the write side
16:42 <darkfader> koollman: yeah, that's where i got the positive effect
16:42 <koollman> even assuming worst case for all reads, sometimes you want a low-latency write
16:42 <koollman> really hot reads will be in ram anyway :)
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16:45 <darkfader> yep
16:46 <darkfader> i remember i also at some point just turned off all "skip sequential" and such stuff to forcibly warm up the cache
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19:25 <Chlorophytus> mornin mornin
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19:32 <* TemptorSent> pours Chlorophytus a dram.
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19:50 <Chlorophytus> oh i see
19:50 <Chlorophytus> sadly i'm on the happy stuff
19:55 <TemptorSent> Chlorophytus: *lol* It's a very old miner's tradition around here... the miners would go bar-to-bar for a free dram of whiskey before heading of to the mines.
19:55 <Chlorophytus> o=
19:56 <TemptorSent> It was called "Mornin's Mornin's"
19:59 <Chlorophytus> ah at my first high school a security guard would say "Mornin' Mornin'" and it just carried with me.
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20:23 <kaniini> hi
20:23 <Chlorophytus> kaniini: :D hi coffee'd out right now and happy i set up a ghetto gateway
20:24 <scv> /b 18
20:24 <Chlorophytus> ?
20:25 <Chlorophytus> ah my the hm
20:26 <Chlorophytus> nvm. meh. it's a sunny day
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22:01 <Shiz> ncopa: https://thenewstack.io/alpine-linux-heart-docker/?utm_content=buffer51032&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
22:01 <Shiz> "It uses the Linux kernel (with an unofficial port of grsecurity patch), musl, C Library, BusyBox, LibreSSL, and OpenRC."
22:01 <Shiz> that C library links to glibc
22:01 <Shiz> may be useful to contact the author for an amendment :p
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