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00:12 <slowbrownfox> The more I read about musl the more I like it. It is also a c++ library?
00:13 <jn__> nope
00:14 <slowbrownfox> Anything musl like for c++ then?
00:15 <jn__> http://libcxx.llvm.org/ perhaps? it's a bit smaller than GNU libstdc++
00:16 <jn__> and permissively licensed
00:17 <slowbrownfox> Interesting
00:18 <jn__> https://cxx.uclibc.org/ (mentioned for completeness)
00:19 <slowbrownfox> That does seem more like what I was thinking of. An embedded C++ library. Cool. But still alpha.
00:20 <slowbrownfox> Seems that Alpine doesn't have it as a standard package
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00:22 <slowbrownfox> Another tarball to download.
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03:45 <qwertty> is there i3status package for i3wm?
03:46 <qwertty> i3wm and i3lock, but not i3status :s
03:47 <TBB> yes there is but it's probably still in edge
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04:23 <wkoszek> Hi guys
04:23 <tmh1999> anyone does perl on Alpine ? what package you need to install in order to have use warning; ?
04:28 <tmh1999> okay it should be use warnings; instead of use warning;
04:28 <tmh1999> PEBKAC
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04:34 <wkoszek> I have a 3.7 .apk files from main and community directories fetched
04:34 <wkoszek> I run a plain alpine:3.7 docker container and on 192.168.50.1 I run myself a mirror for these packages
04:35 <wkoszek> It all works OK until I try to install ruby-bundler. I do have its .apk file, and I can initiate the installation, but in the middle I get:
04:39 <wkoszek> ERROR: ruby-bundler-1.16.1-r0: package mentioned in index not found (try: 'apk update')
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04:44 <wkoszek> Just another thing worth adding: I'm passing --allow-untrusted around, as it's coming from my mirror.
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04:57 <wkoszek> That's how I index the .apk repos: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/wkoszek/ce45c4b443d93e9760de1a68e8213bb9/raw/6cd5ecb02bf1fb239283eb42b24f67f6faaa3fa0/apk_reindex
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05:37 <wkoszek> Hm. The URLs I mirror are: http://dl-cdn.alpinelinux.org/alpine/v3.7/main/x86_64/ and http://dl-cdn.alpinelinux.org/alpine/v3.7/community/x86_64/
05:42 <wkoszek> https://gist.github.com/wkoszek/7beb42c25f7bd41fc08ba03a58b29c84 <- I guess this indexing issue might be causing the problem
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06:08 <tmh1999> wkoszek: unless you rebuilding .apk packages yourself (with your build keys), you would need --allow-untrusted. If you just mirroring to your local repo, I think that'd be fine.
06:09 <wkoszek> tmh1999: I'm passing that flag and it works OK.
06:09 <tmh1999> I've never tried running apk index
06:09 <tmh1999> okay everything works now ?
06:10 <wkoszek> but there are some packages missing from an index. I'm looking at this now, and it appears like some x86_64 packages are depending on x86 package?
06:10 <tmh1999> I don't understan why you need to apk index. you're just mirroring. just change your /etc/apk/repositories to your local repo and that's it. apk update and apk install
06:10 <tmh1999> no, x86 and x86_64 are separate
06:11 <tmh1999> make sure you rsync correct
06:11 <tmh1999> use rsync --delete
06:11 <wkoszek> All right. Let me try without reindexing. Originally I just mirrored .apk files
06:13 <tmh1999> okay. if you run apk index yourself, you will create a new APKINDEX.tar.gz from the list of your donwloaded .apk files. Obviously you'd need --alow-untrusted because you modify original APKINDEX.tar.gz. This is not necessary as you can just simply mirror :D
06:14 <tmh1999> just read again what apk index does
06:14 <tmh1999> now I realize why I used to mirror rather than index myself
06:14 <wkoszek> Somehow I believed the apkindex from the mirror will have dependencies on some other directories which I don't want to mirrior.
06:14 <wkoszek> So wanted to "recalculate" the index.
06:15 <tmh1999> main/APKINDEX.tar.gz will only list packages of main repo, same to community/
06:16 <tmh1999> apk index yourself makes sense in case you don't want to mirror the whole repo
06:17 <wkoszek> that's my situation. but I guess you mean picking up .apk's selectively
06:19 <tmh1999> yeah. but I'd save my time rather than saving some local disk space :D
06:19 <wkoszek> Yeah, definitely.
06:20 <wkoszek> This is a little odd though. The index rebuilding - that looks like a straighforward operation.
06:20 <wkoszek> But I still got issue with e.g. 'py3httplib2', which I apparently don't have in the index.
06:21 <wkoszek> If you search 'py3httplib2' most hits you get from Google are in alpine's edge/x86 repo.
06:22 <wkoszek> On the 'live' docker session what you mentioned (using normal mirrored APKINDEX) worked ok.
06:22 <wkoszek> Let me see if I can build an image that way too and the ruby-bundler to install fine.
06:23 <tmh1999> wkoszek: https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/packages?name=*py*httplib*&branch=v3.7&arch=x86_64
06:25 <wkoszek> tmh1999: All right. Mea culpa.
06:25 <wkoszek> All right. That worked. So essentially no rebuilding is necessary.
06:26 <tmh1999> Yeah :)
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06:33 <tmh1999> sometimes pkgs.alpinelinux.org is not up to date, just checkout git source repo to see if that package is built for that arch or not
06:33 <tmh1999> https://git.alpinelinux.org/cgit/aports/tree/main/py-httplib2/APKBUILD
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06:33 <tmh1999> noarch is kind of all arch.
06:35 <azarus> noarch(specificbinaries)
06:38 <tmh1999> yeah. "architecture independent" https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/APKBUILD_Reference
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06:38 <tmh1999> I never tried to read abuild source to understand that magic though :D
06:39 <wkoszek> It's still weird it didn't work then.
06:40 <wkoszek> I have the file:
06:40 <wkoszek> $ find /Volumes/u128gb/alpine/ | grep py-httplib2
06:40 <wkoszek> /Volumes/u128gb/alpine//dl-cdn.alpinelinux.org/alpine/v3.7/main/x86_64/py-httplib2-0.10.3-r0.apk
06:40 <wkoszek> Oh well.
06:41 <tmh1999> find /Volumes/u128gb/alpine -name "py*httplib*" ?
06:43 <wkoszek> /Volumes/u128gb/alpine/dl-cdn.alpinelinux.org/alpine/v3.7/main/x86_64/py-httplib2-0.10.3-r0.apk
06:43 <wkoszek> /Volumes/u128gb/alpine/dl-cdn.alpinelinux.org/alpine/v3.7/main/x86_64/py3-httplib2-0.10.3-r0.apk
06:43 <wkoszek> /Volumes/u128gb/alpine/dl-cdn.alpinelinux.org/alpine/v3.7/main/x86_64/py2-httplib2-0.10.3-r0.apk
06:48 <tmh1999> it should work.
06:49 <wkoszek> I rerun the mirroring command and it worked OK and there were no complaints.
06:56 <clandmeter> anybody has an rpi1,2,3?
06:57 <clandmeter> please test current v3.8.0_rc3
06:57 <tmh1999> clandmeter: there's a couple of guys on the devel list and github were testing rpi
06:58 <clandmeter> ok?
06:58 <tmh1999> I mean you can ping them.
06:59 <clandmeter> Ok
07:01 <tmh1999> http://lists.alpinelinux.org/alpine-devel/6194.html
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07:51 <azarus> i have an rpi2
07:51 <azarus> I can test tonight maybe
07:52 <azarus> surely tomorrow
07:55 <kahiru> I have rpi 1b, i could test tomorrow in the evening
08:03 <clandmeter> thx
08:06 <* azarus> will have to overwrite his OpenWrt installation with Alpine to test it ;p
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08:28 <mps> does anyone develop android apps on Alpine
08:31 <TBB> that'd take two fetishes instead of the usual one
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08:32 <mps> heh, I know, but I have to do that
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08:35 <mps> I can run Debian under lxc or qemu for such works, but doesn't hurt to ask if someone have do that 'native' with Alpine
08:36 <thug_b3e> hello world!
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08:41 <misterunknown> Hi. I have a weird problem. I use Alpine Linux on my dedicated server, and created an Alpine Linux container. If I start the container in foreground mode, everything is fine. If I start the container deamonized, it does not start the init process: https://pastebin.com/UYhFya6f
08:42 <misterunknown> Any ideas?
08:44 <thug_b3e> I have a Q regardgin LBU usage .... I have in usb1 port flash installation media and lbu used to save there. Afterwards when I added second usb and rebooted and used lbu again I saw that it saves file to the second usb2 instead of usb1. My question is how to define that lbu uses only flash installation media which is in usb1. Thx in advance!
08:52 <misterunknown> Update: Apparently the container starts correct, but lxc-attach only chroots into the container and starts a shell, so I don't see the other processes started by init. Still, weird.
08:52 <clandmeter> misterunknown, use lxc-console or use ssh
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09:04 <misterunknown> clandmeter: Well, I plan to use ssh anyway, but I wonder why lxc-attach obviously works different in other distros. On my old server (running Debian Stretch), lxc-attach behaves like a ssh session where I can see all running processes within the container.
09:05 <clandmeter> misterunknown, yes i think its a bug.
09:06 <clandmeter> i just read the man page and it looks like it is.
09:07 <clandmeter> i never tried it on another distro so i though it was a feature.
09:08 <misterunknown> clandmeter: Ok. So I guess I should open a bug report for the Alpine package?
09:08 <clandmeter> yes please
09:08 <clandmeter> mention it behaves differently on other distros
09:08 <clandmeter> thx!
09:08 <misterunknown> Ok. Thanks for your help!
09:22 <Elsmorian> Hi all, is there any documentation that explains Alpines packaging process, who it chooses which major versions to support etc? The root of my question is why say Alpine 3.7 has Postgres 10, but not any of the 9.X versions which are still supported.
09:25 <clandmeter> there is no documentation.
09:26 <clandmeter> We dont support having multiple versions of a specific application (except in some rare cases).
09:27 <Elsmorian> Oh! Why not?
09:28 <clandmeter> because it would be a mess and more work to maintain.
09:32 <Elsmorian> Thats a shame.
09:34 <misterunknown> Elsmorian: If you need a specific version of a software, you can easily package it yourself. The Alpine package format is really nice and lightweight, and one of the reasons why I switched to Alpine Linux.
09:34 <azarus> Elsmorian: you can try to package it yourself
09:34 <zNVxxliww5gP> you still can 1/ do it yourself 2/ pay someone to do it for you i guess
09:34 <azarus> (what misterunknown said)
09:35 <Elsmorian> Just means it will bite people using Alpine in containers - you then can't keep you container up to date with security fixes and keep using a supported but not bleeding edge of software anymore.
09:37 <Elsmorian> Yeah, thats a fair point, and I haven't tried it so I don't know how easy it is. But it takes time and will probably take more time than just using a debian slim image so people will probably just use that.
09:37 <azarus> so what you're saying is that because alpine doesn't have postgres 9 it sucks?
09:38 <clandmeter> no he prefers using debian and thats fine.
09:38 <clandmeter> we are not here to sell alpine.
09:40 <Elsmorian> Heh, no! I'm saying its a unconventional stance to take, and in my particular case its a shame
09:41 <clandmeter> we understand its hard to build packages yourself, and its the same for us. not hard but takes time we dont always have with our limited resources.
09:42 <zNVxxliww5gP> let me emphasize the 2nd option again: "pay someone to do it for you"
09:43 <Elsmorian> Yeah, entirely fair. It might be worth explicitly stating that packaging policy somewhere, would imagine some people (especially coming from the container world) might not expect it.
09:44 <clandmeter> be our guest, we have a wiki for that :)
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09:51 <misterunknown> Elsmorian: Well, I think you should really take a look at the Alpine packages. Postgres 10 is packaged, so you can orientate you on this package, to prevent possible pitfalls.
09:52 <slowbrownfox> I noticed that Alpine has the directFB package as well as the netsurf browser. Is there any built in frame buffer support for w3m or links? I was reading something about vesafb or uvesafb.
09:57 <slowbrownfox> I found this: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Uvesafb
09:59 <slowbrownfox> I guess the daemon is called v86d
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10:20 <zNVxxliww5gP> slowbrownfox: afaicr it's not a daemon it's a kernel module
10:21 <slowbrownfox> Ah ok.
10:21 <zNVxxliww5gP> and i doubt that w3m/links have framebuffer support, it has to built with that support again.
10:22 <slowbrownfox> Well I think w3m when used with w3m-img can display images with the frame buffer. I think links might use svgalib.
10:23 <slowbrownfox> Alpine doesn't have a package called w3m-img though. So maybe I have to compile it from source.
10:24 <azarus> slowbrownfox: using abuild to build it is a good idea ;)
10:24 <azarus> (or well, creating a package for it)
10:25 <slowbrownfox> Hmm. If I use abuild I don't have to mess with git?
10:26 <azarus> slowbrownfox: how do you mean? git is used to keep track of aports
10:26 <azarus> but you can create an APKBUILD file in a non-git directory
10:26 <_ikke_> abuild has some git integration, but it's not required
10:26 <slowbrownfox> Well I just read a page on building Alpine packages and there was a whole section on git.
10:27 <slowbrownfox> I just don't know how to use git, but of course I should learn.
10:27 <azarus> git is a pretty integral part of alpine package development, yes
10:27 <_ikke_> just ignore it for now
10:27 <azarus> but you don't have to know it to create a package
10:28 <azarus> if you want to get it upstream, then yup, you probably have to know it a bit
10:30 <slowbrownfox> Seems like nearly every project is using git these days.
10:31 <slowbrownfox> I have never used any 'version control system' though.
10:31 <_ikke_> It's popular indeed
10:31 <_ikke_> good investment to learn one
10:31 <slowbrownfox> Yep. I will look for some kind of ultra-beginners guide.
10:31 <_ikke_> https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2
10:32 <slowbrownfox> The first thing I was trying to figure out is what the point of any version control system is. Hehe. I have never worked with a team.
10:32 <_ikke_> Even if you work alone, it can still be beneficial
10:33 <_ikke_> http://tom.preston-werner.com/2009/05/19/the-git-parable.html
10:33 <_ikke_> A story about how and why of version control
10:33 <slowbrownfox> Wow. Cool.
10:34 <mps> slowbrownfox: if you work with 'things' in constant change then VCS is really helpful
10:34 <slowbrownfox> I really prefer the concept-first teaching method.
10:34 <_ikke_> The parable does that
10:35 <slowbrownfox> Yeah I see that.
10:35 <mps> and colaborating with others, VCS is must
10:35 <azarus> Version control is a very important tool in software development, helps you keep track of what you did, and lets you revert mistakes/see when you introduced them
10:35 <azarus> even when you're alone
10:36 <slowbrownfox> Better than just renaming files myprog2.3 etc huh? Hehe.
10:36 <mps> azarus: even in writing texts, /etc/configs and most other changes
10:36 <_ikke_> absolutely
10:37 <slowbrownfox> Yeah my renaming 'version control' method is a bit caveman.
10:37 <_ikke_> a version control is basicaly a more structured way of doing that
10:37 <_ikke_> +system
10:38 <azarus> much more structured
10:39 <mps> personally, in informal speech I call VCS a 'holy grail' of the software
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11:07 <mbrevda> hi - fresh install, ssh disconnects after a minute or two (over lan). Any ideas?
11:07 <_ikke_> MTU issue?
11:07 <_ikke_> firewall in between?
11:08 <_ikke_> does it disconnect after being idle or just flat out after two minutes?
11:08 <mbrevda> no firewall, local lan
11:08 <mbrevda> I'm trying to install stuff. I issue a command and in 30-60seconds ssh is unresponsive. Disconnects a minute or so later
11:09 <mbrevda> how can I check mtu?
11:10 <_ikke_> normally ping with a large payload and DF bit set
11:10 <mbrevda> hmm, I see this in the logs: `auth.info sshd[3372]: Timeout, client not responding.`
11:10 <TBB> there are keepalive mechanisms in ssh for that
11:10 <_ikke_> right, but they should not be necessary in normal cirumstances
11:10 <mbrevda> which is weird - not even 30 seconds!
11:10 <_ikke_> and seemingly, this is not due to being idle
11:11 <mbrevda> hmm - ok, so I hit enter at the cli every five seconds. Didnt help
11:11 <mbrevda> (i.e. disconnected after 30 seconds)
11:13 <_ikke_> right, so it's not an issue for being idle
11:13 <mbrevda> correct
11:14 <_ikke_> checked syslog?
11:15 <mbrevda> saw this: `auth.info sshd[3372]: Timeout, client not responding.`
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11:16 <_ikke_> So something is interfering with the traffic somehow
11:17 <mbrevda> yeah, apperntly
11:19 <_ikke_> tried a packet sniffer?
11:20 <mbrevda> isnt it encrypted? Also, wouldnt have any idea what im looking for
11:21 <mbrevda> Feel in love with alpine for docker, first time im trying to for a server
11:21 <mbrevda> cant work without ssh though
11:23 <_ikke_> mbrevda: it's encrypted, but you at least see if packets are coming through or not
11:24 <mbrevda> well - im issuing commands for the first x seconds, so obviously thats working (also, I can log in)
11:24 <_ikke_> sure
11:24 <_ikke_> but you can see how it progresses
11:25 <mbrevda> looking (although not sure for what)
11:26 <_ikke_> mbrevda: on the server, start a sniffer
11:26 <mbrevda> oh, I did that locally
11:26 <_ikke_> then ssh into the server, look for packets. Then when the connection drops, see if you still receive packets
11:26 <mbrevda> I see a tcp retransmission on the client side
11:27 <_ikke_> continuously?
11:27 <mbrevda> no - just after 20-30 seconds
11:27 <_ikke_> right, but after those 20-30 seconds, do you see them continuously?
11:27 <mbrevda> yes
11:28 <_ikke_> ok, so the packets somehow don't arrive at the server anymore
11:28 <mbrevda> right
11:28 <_ikke_> perhaps check netstat / ss for the specific connection
11:30 <mbrevda> what am I looking for?
11:32 <_ikke_> ss | grep ssh
11:33 <mbrevda> `tcp4 0 260 x.x.x.x.54936 y.y.y.y.ssh FIN_WAIT_1`
11:34 <_ikke_> Ok, but do that when you are just logged in, and then when the connection stops responding
11:34 <_ikke_> perhaps a couple of times
11:35 <mbrevda> `tcp4 0 0 x.x.x.x.54961 y.y.y.y.ssh ESTABLISHED
11:35 <mbrevda> tcp4 0 312 x.x.x.x.54936 y.y.y.y.ssh FIN_WAIT_1`
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11:35 <mbrevda> dropped, netstat is same
11:36 <_ikke_> so it goes from ESTABLISHED to FIN_WAIT_1, already before the connection drops?
11:36 <mbrevda> could the FIN be from the previous connection?
11:38 <_ikke_> just match the remote port
11:40 <mbrevda> meaning?
11:41 <_ikke_> The remote port (54936, 54961) identifies the 'session' mostly
11:42 <_ikke_> so one session is FIN_WAIT_1 (basically holding the port so that it cannot be reused for a while)
11:44 <mbrevda> So im trying to see what the state is when ssh times out?
11:45 <mbrevda> ssh is frozen, status is ESTABLISHED
12:01 <mbrevda> do you think switching to dropbear would help?
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12:21 <mbrevda> looks like a hardware issue
12:36 <_ikke_> right, I don't think this is an ssh issue, so switching would not help anything
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12:57 <thug_b3e> now I have managed to add bash as root ... but still I get an error while trying to run my file | -bash: ./filename: No such file or directory
12:58 <_ikke_> thug_b3e: how are you executing it?
12:58 <thug_b3e> the case it that it runs on other distro w/o any issues :(
12:58 <thug_b3e> just typing ./
12:58 <_ikke_> what is the first line of that file?
13:00 <thug_b3e> thats the case that I cant see it as it outputs me an endless unicode rows
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20:44 <shodan45> forgive the stupid question, but is root needed for installing alpine in a chroot?
20:44 <shodan45> I haven't done an OS-in-a-chroot in many years
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20:48 <_ikke_> what do you mean?
20:50 <hiro> he means something like fakeroot probably...
20:50 <hiro> shodan45: i recommend not fucking around with it and just using root
20:51 <shodan45> hiro: yeah, already decided the same
20:51 <programmerq> I'm curious now.
20:51 <hiro> intel CPU's process isolation guarantees were a lie anyway ;)
20:51 <shodan45> hiro: lol
20:51 <hiro> so why not have everything as root...
20:51 <hiro> if you need more separation use more computers
20:55 <programmerq> in linux, chroot can only be called by root in the first place. You can of course fire up a non-root user inside the shell in the chroot. 'sudo chroot --userspec 1000:1000 alpineroot /bin/sh' seems to get me a shell as user 1000
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20:57 <hiro> programmerq: there is fakeroot
20:57 <hiro> but perhaps it doesn't do proper chroot...
20:58 <hiro> never looked into it tbh, seemed retarded :P
20:58 <programmerq> ah, I forgot about fakeroot. I haven't used it directly ever.
20:58 <hiro> good choice :P
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23:07 <Thalheim> if I'd like to create an Alpine package, which depends on two other libraries that aren't available in the repo, should I create three packages or bundle them together?
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23:11 <clandmeter> create multiple packages in a single pr (if you use github)
23:14 <Thalheim> clandmeter: great, thank you
23:16 <Thalheim> clandmeter: how about -dev libs and headers?
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