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00:00 <fishcakez> micmus: all the trys are in db_connection 😞
00:01 <fishcakez> Catch really got worse usage once it became apparent how expensive generation of stack trace term is
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00:40 <travis-ci> elixir-lang/elixir#13762 (master - c55f92d : José Valim): The build passed.
00:40 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/elixir-lang/elixir/compare/f80008032ce6...c55f92d78b04
00:40 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/elixir-lang/elixir/builds/209180768
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02:08 <travis-ci> christhekeele/elixir#32 (defguard - 4e8b990 : Chris Keele): The build failed.
02:08 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/christhekeele/elixir/commit/4e8b990fb424
02:08 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/christhekeele/elixir/builds/209198917
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02:11 <travis-ci> christhekeele/elixir#31 (master - f800080 : José Valim): The build passed.
02:11 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/christhekeele/elixir/compare/2e47d45de89f...f80008032ce6
02:11 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/christhekeele/elixir/builds/209198764
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02:16 <Speed> hi, is it possible to have tests in the toplevel of an umbrella app?
02:17 <Speed> I'm trying to test the integration of my umbrella sub-applications, so I'd need all the packages started in the test
02:17 <Speed> I'm currently kind of faking it by having another package that depends on the other 3 and putting the tests there
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03:47 <travis-ci> christhekeele/elixir#33 (defguard - 47107a3 : Chris Keele): The build is still failing.
03:47 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/christhekeele/elixir/compare/4e8b990fb424...47107a365645
03:47 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/christhekeele/elixir/builds/209218062
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03:55 <travis-ci> christhekeele/elixir#34 (defguard - ce2595f : Chris Keele): The build has errored.
03:55 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/christhekeele/elixir/compare/47107a365645...ce2595fa6f02
03:55 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/christhekeele/elixir/builds/209218861
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05:17 <travis-ci> christhekeele/elixir#36 (defguard - 53c6733 : Chris Keele): The build was broken.
05:17 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/christhekeele/elixir/compare/8924cec7d442...53c673377e63
05:17 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/christhekeele/elixir/builds/209231777
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08:27 <travis-ci> christhekeele/elixir#37 (defguard - bf89e37 : Chris Keele): The build was fixed.
08:27 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/christhekeele/elixir/compare/53c673377e63...bf89e37edc85
08:27 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/christhekeele/elixir/builds/209266586
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08:52 <cxadams> \quit
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09:06 <celyr> it's /quit
09:07 <smeevil> noooo dont quit on us !
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09:21 <cxadams> typo :)
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09:23 <travis-ci> christhekeele/elixir#38 (defguard - 6edce00 : Chris Keele): The build was broken.
09:23 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/christhekeele/elixir/compare/bf89e37edc85...6edce00a8162
09:23 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/christhekeele/elixir/builds/209280209
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09:51 <travis-ci> christhekeele/elixir#39 (defguard - 422e835 : Chris Keele): The build was fixed.
09:51 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/christhekeele/elixir/compare/6edce00a8162...422e835b98df
09:51 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/christhekeele/elixir/builds/209285284
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10:05 <travis-ci> christhekeele/elixir#40 (defguard - 7045499 : Chris Keele): The build was broken.
10:05 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/christhekeele/elixir/compare/422e835b98df...7045499b90ab
10:05 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/christhekeele/elixir/builds/209288354
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10:12 <craigp> s
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10:18 <Nicd-> craigp: please elaborate
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10:40 <OliverMT> maybe sooooo ?
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11:05 <travis-ci> elixir-lang/elixir#13774 (jv-new-mix-new - 6c8615c : José Valim): The build passed.
11:05 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/elixir-lang/elixir/commit/6c8615c39c69
11:05 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/elixir-lang/elixir/builds/209307108
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12:29 <hansihe> https://www.reddit.com/r/elixir/comments/5yerls/what_json_would_you_like_to_parse/
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12:37 <OliverMT> i have a ranch listener as a worker(..) in my phoenix application setup
12:38 <OliverMT> in localdev I saved by accident with some code that didnt compile
12:38 <OliverMT> this brought down the entire application tree, not just the listener for ranch
12:38 <OliverMT> is this only for compile errors? or is this something that could happen in prod?
12:38 <OliverMT> if an edge case gives hundreds of match errors suddenly for example
12:41 <OliverMT> question #2, is there anything wrong with caching _build on CI? other than upgrading elixir versions
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12:46 <fishcakez> OliverMT: in prod you would never compile but if worker doesnt run it will always crash and likely bring down the node
12:47 <fishcakez> I am not certain what you are asking
12:48 <fishcakez> ranch listeners would normally trap all errors in the connections
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12:49 <nyaray> a small question.. how should I go about doing dependency injection? is the right way using module attributes that read from config and then have config values be set depending on environment (dev, integration, stage, prod, ...)?
12:49 <nyaray> OliverMT: how is it an edge case if it's breaking in the way you describe?
12:50 <OliverMT> because I dont have an auto recompiler in a mix release
12:50 <josevalim> nyaray: sounds like a good approach to me
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12:51 <OliverMT> I mean if I manage to bubble up 50 connections that has a match error, if I get some input I didnt foresee or did something wrong
12:51 <OliverMT> so the ranch worker dies again and again, how do I stop that worker from bringing down the phoenix server?
12:51 <nyaray> josevalim: cool, thanks!
12:51 <OliverMT> do I put a supervisor between the worker and my app?
12:52 <fishcakez> OliverMT: ranch wont bubble up the error, can you show it?
12:52 <fishcakez> unless its failing to start a listen socket
12:52 <OliverMT> ok, so this is specificall only because of listener error then
12:52 <OliverMT> lol
12:52 <fishcakez> if it failing to start a listen socket then your application will go down
12:52 <OliverMT> I mean compiler error
12:52 <OliverMT> because compile error will make it not be able to start listener
12:53 <OliverMT> then I got what I need, that wont happen in prod
12:53 <OliverMT> and if it does, I want the node to go down anyways
12:53 <fishcakez> it wont happen because you wont be doing live compiling in prod
12:53 <OliverMT> I meant if the port is taken for some reason
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12:53 <fishcakez> the phoenix reload feature is just for dev when using phoenix
12:53 <nyaray> if the port is taken, you've got a bigger issue, don't you?
12:53 <fishcakez> yeah itll go down
12:54 <nyaray> that's what I mean
12:54 <OliverMT> thats what I am saying
12:54 <OliverMT> then I want it to go down
12:54 <OliverMT> so the LB will take the node out of the pool
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14:12 <whodidth1s> can you use user_id:references:users(?) with phx.gen.html, i just want to see what it generates
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14:33 <sahrizvi> Hello! How do you folks deal with AWS AutoScalingGroups when using ex_aws? I tried but couldn't find AutoScaling related functions in the docs. For example, describe AutoScalingGroup instances.
14:33 <sahrizvi> I'll appreciate any pointers. :-)
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15:34 <hmans> If I want to start a new Phoenix 1.3 Beta app today, can I just use the new app generator I currently have and update deps, or...?
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15:36 <gjaldon__> hmans: I don't understand your question. if you have the new app generator for Phoenix, then that's all you need to start a new Phoenix 1.3 project
15:38 <hmans> Yeah, but I still had the one I installed in the 1.2 days, so I was assuming it creates a 1.2 specific Phoenix app.
15:38 <hmans> I ended up manually downloading the phoenix_new .ez package for 1.3 and installed/used that
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15:43 <hmans> Ah, it's now phx.new, too
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15:52 <PaReeOhNos> hmans: All of the new phoenix generators are `phx` instead of `phoenix`
15:52 <hmans> Yup, noticed that. Thanks though.
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15:53 <hmans> I stumbled over it because after manually installing the 1.3 generator, I dumbly used phoenix.new
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16:35 <sahrizvi> Hello! How do you folks deal with AWS AutoScalingGroups when using ex_aws? I tried but couldn't find AutoScaling related functions in the docs. For example, how can one use ex_aws to list all instances in an AutoScalingGroup?
16:35 <sahrizvi> I saw there was a PR but it was closed due to some missing prerequisites.
16:36 <sahrizvi> Do I need to call AWS CLI from within my application?
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16:43 <travis-ci> elixir-lang/elixir#13776 (jv-new-mix-new - c04a241 : José Valim): The build was broken.
16:43 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/elixir-lang/elixir/compare/6c8615c39c69...c04a2412a762
16:43 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/elixir-lang/elixir/builds/209415859
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16:52 <scrogson> what's the proper type spec for a function that can raise an exception?
16:53 <fishcakez> the return values that are not an exceptiob
16:53 <scrogson> so just leave off the error type then, eh?
16:53 <fishcakez> always
16:53 <scrogson> so instead of :: Response.t | Error.t
16:53 <scrogson> just :: Response.t
16:54 <fishcakez> oh
16:54 <fishcakez> Error.t would be returning an Error.t
16:54 <fishcakez> raising would mean `no_return`
16:54 <fishcakez> so Error.t can never be returned so is incorrect :(
16:55 <fishcakez> the mistake a lot of people make is doing Response.t | no_return. However then dialyzer won't warn if it believes the code will always raise
16:55 <fishcakez> instead it should be Response.t
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16:55 <scrogson> gotcha
16:56 <scrogson> I've had typespecs in my libs for a long time...never used dialyzer until now :)
16:56 <scrogson> luckily I've only got a few issues
16:57 <scrogson> trying to fix this one:
16:57 <scrogson> lib/oauth2/request.ex:46: The pattern {'error', #{'headers':=_headers@2, 'body':=_body@2, 'status_code':=_code@1}} can never match the type {'error',#{'__exception__':='true', '__struct__':='Elixir.OAuth2.Error', 'reason':=binary()}}
16:58 <scrogson> it's odd...
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17:03 <scrogson> fishcakez: any idea?
17:03 <fishcakez> scrogson: whats odd about it?
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17:03 <scrogson> well..I'm not trying to match on the error type there
17:03 <scrogson> it's a Response.t
17:04 <fishcakez> can you show the line?
17:05 <fishcakez> it seems you have a pattern to match on {:error, %{headers: headers}} etc when dialyzer believes it will always be {:error, OAuth2.Error.t}
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17:05 <scrogson> sure..one sec
17:06 <scrogson> https://github.com/scrogson/oauth2/blob/master/lib/oauth2/request.ex#L46
17:06 <fishcakez> https://github.com/scrogson/oauth2/blob/master/lib/oauth2/request.ex#L13
17:06 <fishcakez> the swpec of request does not allow that pattern to be returned
17:07 <scrogson> ah!
17:07 <scrogson> I forgot to add {:error, Response.t} there
17:07 <scrogson> thanks
17:08 <scrogson> sweet, that fixed it
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17:10 <DeadTrickster> looking for a "showcase" Phoenix 1.3 project - i.e. a couple of views, a couple of rest endpoints and a couple of channels
17:12 <Ankhers> DeadTrickster: You may be hard pressed to find one. Phoenix 1.3.0-rc.0 was only released 7 days ago.
17:12 <DeadTrickster> I know :-)
17:13 <micmus> DeadTrickster: I think hexpm was updated to the new structure https://github.com/hexpm/hexpm
17:13 <Ankhers> It looks like the hex.pm website is running 1.3 though
17:13 <gazler> https://github.com/wojtekmach/acme_bank is pretty good - not Phoenix 1.3, but it uses similar concepts.
17:13 <ericmj> hexpm doesn’t have channels though
17:14 <DeadTrickster> I want to update my prometheus-phoenix integration to the new version (I was waiting for view_name metadata in respective instrument call)
17:15 <DeadTrickster> hmm I'll go with hexpm then
17:15 <DeadTrickster> ericmj, are you sure you don't need channels?
17:15 <gazler> For those real time updates when a package is updated? Worth it. :)
17:15 <ericmj> i’m pretty sure :)
17:15 <DeadTrickster> or for comments
17:15 <ericmj> DeadTrickster: what comments?
17:16 <DeadTrickster> like package-related discussions
17:16 <micmus> for real-time download statistics :D
17:16 <ericmj> hex.pm is not a forum for discussions
17:16 <DeadTrickster> okay
17:16 <gazler> micmus: "real-time"
17:16 <gazler> I assume they are aggregated.
17:17 <DeadTrickster> yes
17:17 <micmus> It should show a feed: "micmus just downloaded phoenix", "josevalim downloaded ecto 5 minutes ago", ... :P
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17:17 <ericmj> we can get realtime downloads from fastly but not from s3
17:17 <ericmj> s3 is delayed by a few hours, that’s why we only update stats every 24h
17:17 <DeadTrickster> btw notifications about new versions can be cool
17:18 <ericmj> DeadTrickster: sure, will you build it? :)
17:18 <DeadTrickster> yes
17:18 <DeadTrickster> with channels
17:18 <gazler> I haven't checked the hex stats in a while. "1 553 218 downloads last 7 days" - I remember when we hit 1.5 million total
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17:18 <DeadTrickster> ;-)
17:18 <Ankhers> real time notification through the website, or get an email when something is realeased?
17:18 <Ankhers> released
17:18 <DeadTrickster> why not both?
17:18 <DeadTrickster> desktop notifications probably
17:18 <DeadTrickster> and email
17:19 <ericmj> why not focus on being a package manager?
17:19 <micmus> I get notifications when something is released through dash downloading new docs ;)
17:19 <Ankhers> ^^
17:19 <gazler> Ankhers DeadTrickster: https://github.com/phoenixframework/phoenix/releases.atom https://ifttt.com/connect/feed/email
17:19 <gazler> You're welcome. :)
17:19 <DeadTrickster> hmm
17:20 <DeadTrickster> ok :-)
17:20 <gazler> ericmj: hex has a web API, right?
17:20 <DeadTrickster> what's next? use google as calculator?
17:20 <Ankhers> You don't do that already?
17:20 <ericmj> Yep, here’s the api http://docs.hexpm.apiary.io/#
17:20 <DeadTrickster> I'm an emacs user
17:21 <DeadTrickster> so I use app on my ipad
17:21 <ericmj> that’s what dash uses to find new package versions
17:21 <gazler> Does it poll?
17:21 <ericmj> yeah
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17:22 <ericmj> no one has asked for web hooks yet so i havent built it
17:22 <ericmj> but that’s up for grabs, realtime stats as well
17:22 <ericmj> but i don’t think we need channels on hex.pm for notifications or comments
17:22 <Ankhers> ericmj: I may look into webhooks once I finish some Ecto stuff.
17:23 <ericmj> Ankhers: awesome, that would be appreciated
17:23 <ericmj> right now i am working on supporting multiple repositories on hex.pm which I feel is more important right now
17:23 <Ankhers> Actually, I will also need to get replica sets working before that :(
17:23 <gazler> ericmj: Did you mention private packages at some point?
17:24 <micmus> either webhooks or a public atom feed would work
17:24 <ericmj> gazler: yes, private packages are part of multiple repositories
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17:24 <DeadTrickster> but you can't filter feed?
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17:26 <ericmj> DeadTrickster: you can just like you filter on the website search
17:26 <ericmj> micmus: we had feeds at one point but i removed it because i felt it was better to use the api
17:27 <ericmj> is there a use case for feeds that the http api doesn’t cover?
17:27 <micmus> yeah, that's fair
17:27 <micmus> the only use case would be support for software that already integrates with feeds
17:28 <ericmj> i dont have the knowledge to build correct and valid feeds. it seems like the standards are a mess
17:28 <ericmj> micmus: oh, right
17:28 <ericmj> i dont think anyone used the feeds for that
17:29 <micmus> if somebody looks for areas to contribute, my favorite feature for hexpm would be download graphs.
17:30 <ericmj> yes, this ^
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17:36 <bitwalker> I think it'd be nice to have an overview of which versions were the most used in the last week/month
17:37 <bitwalker> You can compile that information yourself kinda, but it's a pain
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17:46 <ericmj> bitwalker: we store all that information, we just need an interface to expose it
17:47 <bitwalker> Wish I had the time :(
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17:50 <edmz> ericmj : to literally expose it charts?
17:50 <ericmj> charts, graphs or tables
17:50 <edmz> (I don't want to sound obtuse, just wanted clarification :P)
17:50 <ericmj> whatever is most useful and makes most sense
17:51 <ericmj> Right. i havent really thought about what it should look like
17:51 <gazler> Is there a way to escape special forms so I can do h(Kernel..) for example?
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17:52 <ericmj> gazler: h ../2 ?
17:53 <gazler> ericmj: Oh - I gave the wrong example. I meant h Kernel.SpecialForms../2
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17:54 <ericmj> gazler: I think the . operator is one of exceptions
17:54 <ericmj> you can unquote it but it doesn’t really help with h in iex
17:56 <gazler> ericmj: Thanks for confirming
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18:11 <fishcakez> @gazler :erlang.make_fun/3 would work but likely hassle
18:11 <Sigma00> does it make fun of the recipient?
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18:14 <gazler> fishcakez: That doesn't work either.
18:15 <fishcakez> gazler I thought we had stubs in docs
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18:31 <micmus> Sigma00: :erlang.make_fun(module, function, arity) is what happens when you do &module.function/arity
18:31 <micmus> AFAIK it's a private VM API and is not documented
18:31 <Sigma00> man you're no fun :(
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18:41 <wwwd> I am working on a Phoenix tutorial. I have been using iex -S mix to start the REPL and load the app. Then I have been able to use recompile to reload the code. I just started the section on structs which ahs a line of code that looks like "[r, g, b | _tail] = hex_list" which then returns [r, g, b]. If I change the code to add orremove "_tail" and use recompile the REPL does not see the change. I have to exit and re-start with iex -S
18:41 <wwwd> mix. Anyone have any idea why that would be? I am running IEx 1.4.1 on ubuntu 16.04.
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18:46 <ciawal> in what file is this code, wwwd?
18:47 <ciawal> and what makes you say it's not seeing the chaneg
18:54 <wwwd> The image struct is in lib/image.ex and the code that uses it is in lib/edenticon.ex. And, if I change the code without restarting the REPL the behavior does not change. That is if I take out "_tail" and do recompile or respawn I do not get an error which is what I expect. If I restart I do. Thin if I add "_tail" back in, agin I continue to get the error until I restart...then the code works again.
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19:08 <sahrizvi> How do you folks handle cases where an AWS service is not supported by SDKs like ex_aws?
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19:09 <sahrizvi> I have run into a situation where I need to use AWS Auto Scaling APIs but ex_aws doesn't have it yet.
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19:09 <dimitarvp> josevalim & micmus & ericmj -- Guys, apologies for direct mention. I am working on 2 OSS Elixir projects myself and I am fully sold; I never want to code non-FP ever again. And I absolutely love Elixir with every line of code I produce. But I need to convince a boss + a customer on not using Rails but going for Phoenix.
19:09 <dimitarvp> in a business sense, both Rails and Phoenix are adequate.
19:10 <dimitarvp> Could you please give me links to posts you would show business people + CTOs advocating a good business case for Elixir/Phoenix? Please?
19:10 <icecreamcohen> dimitarvp: Are you cost constrained at all?
19:11 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: Not for at least 6 months. Plus I'd prefer a smaller team because it makes management much easier and quicker (I am the tech lead).
19:11 <dimitarvp> IMO Phoenix will allow a smaller team than Rails.
19:11 <icecreamcohen> but server costs aren’t an issue?
19:11 <icecreamcohen> https://medium.com/@Pinterest_Engineering/introducing-new-open-source-tools-for-the-elixir-community-2f7bb0bb7d8c#.udg2jvda5
19:11 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: They aren't, and that's why I can't sue that argument against Rails.
19:12 <icecreamcohen> do they care about user perceived wait time?
19:12 <ciawal> wwwd: odd – if mix is building it then recompile should work. you can try mix clean and rebuild maybe
19:12 <ciawal> have you manually run elixirc perhaps?
19:12 <ciawal> that might cause it to load the wrong object file
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19:13 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: Not much. It'll be a big internal system which will mostly be used by internal personnel. But a big growth is very possible and that's what I want to use as an argument because Rails scales poorly from one point and on.
19:13 <icecreamcohen> is the team comfortable in rails?
19:13 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: the CTO of the customer can be convinced using Elixir's big syntactical similarity to Ruby, but nothing much else.
19:14 <icecreamcohen> elixir only bears a passing resemblance to ruby though
19:14 <icecreamcohen> that’s the worst reason to use it
19:14 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: Very true but it lowers the barrier to entry which is what wins most of the time.
19:14 <dimitarvp> That's like the initial dose of drugs many people need to be converted to drugs, you know. :D
19:14 <icecreamcohen> not really; you’ll see people doing “ruby in elixir” which is just terrible.
19:15 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: That's a risk I am willing to take because I'm the tech lead and I will have to approve each PR.
19:15 <icecreamcohen> are your systems complex?
19:15 <icecreamcohen> like, is debugging them hard?
19:15 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: Unclear for now. It'll be an ATS (Applicant tracking system) + extra features initially.
19:15 <dimitarvp> And yes, debugging something like that in Rails would be an epic pain.
19:15 <dimitarvp> Many other systems involved.
19:16 <wwwd> dimitarvp: Michael Schaefermeyer was a until recently a senior engineer at Bleacher Report. I just watched the video at this link http://www.elixirconf.eu/elixirconf2015/michael-schaefermeyer and found his arguments fairly complelling.
19:17 <icecreamcohen> elixir has pretty insane runtime debugging, profiling and recovery features. That might be a way.
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19:17 <alxndr> dimitarvp: fwiw Erlang Solutions just put out a brief PDF explaining how they helped Bleacher Report build replacements for our Rails monolith + related support systems https://www.erlang-solutions.com/resources/case-studies.html (I work at Bleacher Report)
19:18 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: Indeed, thanks for reminding me. It's a very strong argument to say: "We can poke in the production system's guts at realtime without crashing it, ever".
19:18 <dimitarvp> wwwd: I am thankful!
19:18 <icecreamcohen> yes; and you can *fix* it in realtime too
19:18 <icecreamcohen> I literally did that just yesterday
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19:18 <dimitarvp> alxndr: That looks VERY useful. Thanks a lot!
19:18 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: All the better. =)
19:19 <Ankhers> dimitarvp: Fault tolerance is a big selling point.
19:19 <dimitarvp> Ankhers: but I don't know how to sell it to business people. They don't care because for them that's a must anyway. Little do they know that many PHP/Ruby systems are kept alive artificially by diligent TechOps guys/girls.
19:20 <icecreamcohen> they must understand that some small proportion of users see errors, right?
19:20 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: They do, but if you give them the real numbers (1-2%) they dismiss that as a rounding error and don't care.
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19:21 <icecreamcohen> that’s 1.5 of requests, not users
19:21 <wwwd> ciawal: No to elixirc. It's not a huge deal, just found it strange that it was not acting as I expected. My first inclination in these situations is that I am doing something wrong...I haven't learned much about programming, but my faliability becomes obvious day by day! ;)
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19:21 <icecreamcohen> a single webpage might make 30 requests.
19:21 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: HOWEVER, now that I think of it, I can sell it to them via "less TechOps expenses".
19:21 <icecreamcohen> yes
19:21 <icecreamcohen> fewer expenses: techops, servers...
19:21 <icecreamcohen> fewer upset users
19:21 <dimitarvp> Yep, business people LOVE such sales pitches.
19:22 <Ankhers> Fewer emergencies when something catastrophic happens.
19:22 <icecreamcohen> our notification system would go for hours without a single failure.
19:22 <dimitarvp> Ankhers & icecreamcohen -- indeed.
19:22 <icecreamcohen> and if something catastophic happens, you can recover more quickly. possibly without stopping.
19:23 <markh> just show them the 2 million connections per server, then show them facebook buying whatsapp
19:23 <dimitarvp> markh: Was that the WhatsApp blog post?
19:23 <icecreamcohen> 2mm per server is hard, but 500k per server isnt'.
19:23 <Ankhers> markh: If it was that easy, I would have been able to use Haskell in my day job too :P
19:23 <markh> :p
19:23 <markh> dimitarvp, this is chris's blog post: http://www.phoenixframework.org/blog/the-road-to-2-million-websocket-connections
19:23 <markh> well
19:24 <Ankhers> But yes. If you show that "the big guys" are using Erlang / Elixir, that can definately help.
19:24 <dimitarvp> Ankhers: thank you, that's one of the things I am definitely looking for.
19:24 <markh> technically not chris's, but he references it in one of his keynotes from last year
19:24 <dimitarvp> markh: that's the one, thanks!
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19:25 <icecreamcohen> dimitarvp: how does the team feel about it?
19:26 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: We're yet to hire people. My CEO however is a really good old-school techie and was very quickly sold on Elixir + Phoenix.
19:26 <dimitarvp> He told me he would look for Rubyists and would rely on me to "convert" them :D
19:26 <icecreamcohen> just not the CTO
19:26 <dimitarvp> No, the CTO we're talking about is from the customer side.
19:26 <dimitarvp> He needs the best sales pitch.
19:27 <icecreamcohen> So, you can also tell them that elixir isn’t new in the sense that it’s untested
19:27 <dimitarvp> Definitely. Plus several really big organizations are using Erlang / Elixir.
19:27 <dimitarvp> as Ankhers mentioned, that's a powerful argument.
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19:27 <icecreamcohen> it relies on a venerable, amazing, 30 year old technology that powers stuff people need to _live_
19:27 <Ankhers> ^^
19:27 <dimitarvp> Yep! And most SMS systems are in Erlang, aren't they?
19:27 <icecreamcohen> I don’t know, actually
19:28 <Ankhers> If the CTO doesn't know, Erlang is used in ~50% of the telecomms infrastructure. At least that is the number that I keep reading.
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19:28 <Ankhers> I have never confirmed it though.
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19:29 <dimitarvp> Ankhers: I couldn't imagine a reason for that being a lie though.
19:29 <dimitarvp> I mean, it's not hard to expose it, maybe?
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19:30 <icecreamcohen> does ericsson produce 50% of telecom equipment?
19:30 <Ankhers> dimitarvp: This is a small list, but may be useful -- https://www.quora.com/Which-companies-use-the-Erlang-language
19:31 <icecreamcohen> and https://www.quora.com/What-big-projects-use-Elixir
19:31 <dimitarvp> already found that one icecreamcohen :P
19:31 <dimitarvp> Ankhers: thanks
19:33 <icecreamcohen> We’re #1, We’re #1...
19:35 <icecreamcohen> dimitarvp: An example from our servers is that the notification system was able to absorb a 2x increase in queries without scaling up. It just got slower.
19:35 <icecreamcohen> I doubt pretty much any other system could do that.
19:35 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: To be fair, I've never seen one myself and I gotta tell you, I've been to places.
19:35 <dimitarvp> Including banks with clusters of Java enterprise app servers.
19:36 <icecreamcohen> java definitely won’t do it
19:36 <icecreamcohen> it’s because of the cooperative scheduler.
19:36 <icecreamcohen> languages like java that are mutable cannot have a cooperative scheduler.
19:37 <icecreamcohen> (or one that’s fair and doesn’t litter your code with “it’s OK to schedule” markers)
19:38 <dimitarvp> icecreamcohen: All true but businessmen don't know that.
19:38 <icecreamcohen> it’s your job to educate them
19:38 <dimitarvp> And sadly, most people are fascists in nature: if something doesn't work, they'll pour more money and/or yelling in it until it starts working.
19:38 <dimitarvp> Changing course is almost never on people's radars. Sad reality about Homo Sapiens. :(
19:39 <icecreamcohen> businessmen won’t like that ^
19:39 <dimitarvp> I know :D we're chatting!
19:39 <Ankhers> dimitarvp: less code = more productivity (This isn't always the case)
19:39 <dimitarvp> Ankhers: in FP this is almost always the case however.
19:39 <dimitarvp> In OOP / imperative languages, it definitely is a very questionable statement though.
19:39 <Ankhers> I'm just saying, you can write bad code in any language.
19:39 <dimitarvp> Of course. Lately I found an Elixir package called `oop`. Ran away screaming.
19:40 <dimitarvp> Like, WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT!
19:41 <Ankhers> Fun?
19:42 <icecreamcohen> IIRC elixir was almost oo at first
19:42 <acscherp> Yes that lightning talk last year at EUC was hilarious, the crowd went nuts :)
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19:47 <Ankhers> Okay, that was a great talk though.
19:48 <markh> i started reading this book and i really like it: https://www.manning.com/books/the-little-elixir-and-otp-guidebook
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19:50 <PaReeOhNos> acscherp: Have you got a link for that lightning talk?
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19:50 <Ankhers> PaReeOhNos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EtV2JUU0Z4
19:50 <PaReeOhNos> awesome thanks Ankhers
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20:33 <wwwd> ciawal: Figured it out. I had recently added lint-elixirc to my atom. I.e when I said I had not loaded elixirc that was not quite correct!
20:34 <wwwd> By they way does anyone know of a good linter that won't break stuff?
20:37 <Ankhers> wwwd: I haven't really used them, but I think Credo and Dogma are the big two.
20:37 <wwwd> Thanks!
20:38 <Ankhers> And they both seem to have active development.
20:42 <wwwd> Here's me succumbing to peer pressure...I looked at credo, but went with the one that had the most installs on atom!
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21:15 <om3ga> I'm trying to follow along with the phoenix framework book and I'm getting the following error trying to implement the 'new' function
21:16 <om3ga> == Compilation error on file web/controllers/user_controller.ex == ** (CompileError) web/controllers/user_controller.ex:5: User.__struct__/1 is undefined, cannot expand struct User (stdlib) lists.erl:1354: :lists.mapfoldl/3 web/controllers/user_controller.ex:4: (module) (stdlib) erl_eval.erl:670: :erl_eval.do_apply/6
21:16 <om3ga> def new(conn, _params) do 5 changeset = User.changeset(%User{}) 6 render(conn, "new.html", changeset: changeset) 7 end
21:16 <om3ga> def changeset(model, params \\ %{}) do 5 model 6 |> cast(params, ~w(name username), []) 7 |> validate_length(:username, min: 1, max: 20) 8 end
21:16 <om3ga> Sorry for the wall of text but if anyone can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it :)
21:20 <ericmj> om3ga: you are probably missing an alias
21:20 <adamkittelson> om3ga: User is likely YourApp.User, so you'd either need to do %YourApp.User{} or `alias YourApp.User` to use %User{}
21:20 <om3ga> oh ok, I'll give that a shot
21:25 <bvcosta> I just wrote a recommendation about programming phoenix book, please read and give your opinion ( http://thrownewexception.com/elixir/2017/03/09/phoenix-framework-book-recomendation.html )
21:27 <om3ga> That fixed the issue, thanks!
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22:47 <weaksauce> how would one do something to associate a letter with the position of the alphabet it occurs? like a = 0, b = 1
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22:50 <vans163> sorry for the bother, is there a way to write R17 style functions in elixir, i cant seem to find info nor get the syntax right myself (if there is a way). In erlang it looks like. F = (fun Recur([]) -> done; Recur([H|T]) -> Recur(T) end)
22:50 <vans163> F([1,2,3]).
22:52 <josevalim> vans163: no
22:53 <josevalim> ~~ Enum.with_index(?a..?z)
22:53 <josevalim> weaksauce: ^
22:53 <vans163> josevalim: thanks, would there be another solution to the case where you need to reduce until you get a value, then stop the reduction?
22:54 <josevalim> use private functions for doing that
22:54 <josevalim> you just can't do it inline
22:54 <vans163> got it
22:54 <josevalim> you can still recur by defining a private function
22:55 <vans163> josevalim: yea, i just like for smallthings to inline the recursion in erlang, feel like that extra xreference (to the priv func) makes the code slightly harder to follow, im talking about really thin recursive logic here.
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23:00 <ivan> is there a function for getting the cartesian product of two enums?
23:01 <ivan> heh ok simple enough https://github.com/tallakt/comb/blob/master/lib/comb.ex#L20-L23
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23:15 <weaksauce> Thanks josevalim
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23:16 <josevalim> ivan: for comprehensions
23:16 <josevalim> for a <- list_a, b <- list_b, do: {a, b}
23:17 <ivan> josevalim: indeed thanks
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23:40 <wwwd> Just out of curiosity, does anyone know when Phoenix 1.3 is scheduled for release?
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23:41 <carterparks> wwwd: there's an rc out for it
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