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01:00 <iFire> fishcakez: a problem I'm having is that the encode stage doesn't have the metadata
01:01 <iFire> parse -> prepare -> execute (encode, execute) -> decode
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01:46 <hakunin> is there a way for me to inspect a running distillery release?
01:46 <hakunin> to figure out where a bottleneck might be?
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02:03 <hakunin> weird thing about these load tests, after it starts returning 500s the website stops working for a minute
02:04 <hakunin> and even after the loadtest seized, i see SYN_RECV continues to stay at 30s-40s, as though something keeps pumping requests into the tcp stack
02:04 <hakunin> the performance is so subpar, i can't help but think it's some low hanging fruit
02:05 <hakunin> but all day no progress so far
02:06 <hakunin> these are the settings i currently had set https://gist.github.com/maxim/f01d2647b22f16413fc67e58889ced17
02:07 <hakunin> but i think the problem is in the app itself, it just won't serve them quick enough, can't figure out why
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03:20 <jck> hey can anyone here offer some help with phoenix?
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03:35 <jbranchaud> jck what's the issue?
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11:45 <v0j> just wanna say. :)
11:45 <v0j> just wanna say hi! :)
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14:01 <hmans> Is there a specific reason why Phoenix doesn't have generators for resources _without_ the actual controller function implementations and .eex templates?
14:02 <hmans> ie. if I just want it to set up the controller, view and (in 1.3) context files, but not fill them with actual code.
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15:14 <targaf> is there a reason this https://gist.github.com/spencermurray/43a9e29e08a1b63e07af6b129d8f1696 returns a one element list containing the strict rather than the struct itself?
15:17 <tax> is elixir similar to ruby at all? and in what ways?
15:17 <harfangk> it uses keywords like def and end
15:17 <harfangk> that's about it
15:18 <tax> lol
15:19 <tax> fair enough
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15:22 <tax> do you think that the comparison of elixir to another language such as ruby could be better if replaced with a more accurate comparison?
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15:31 <harfangk> i think it would be helpful if the comparison is more specific
15:31 <harfangk> is elixir focused on developer happiness like ruby? yes
15:31 <harfangk> is elixir focused on building practical application like ruby? yes
15:33 <harfangk> elixir is way more different than similar to ruby, so comparison should be made between specific elements of those two languages
15:35 <tax> hm interesting
15:36 <tax> i was also thinking if there was another language that influenced its design more
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15:50 <harfangk> i heard that it was inspired by clojure in many ways
15:50 <harfangk> protocol and macro in particular
15:51 <harfangk> it took some ruby-sque syntax
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15:51 <harfangk> other than that, it's erlang after all
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15:58 <tax> what are the most useful things to know about erlang when programming elixir?
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16:07 <OliverMT> how the vm works, how recursion replaces iteration
16:07 <OliverMT> and pattern matching
16:07 <OliverMT> which you learn in elixir but its basically just a syntax sugar on top of erlang
16:08 <OliverMT> tbh, I feel elixir feels more like python than ruby
16:08 <OliverMT> if you want to compare it to other languages
16:08 <ciawal> b-but
16:08 <ciawal> I hate python :(
16:08 <ciawal> I'm so conflicted
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16:15 <harfangk> erlang/elixir language is really simple
16:15 <harfangk> for me, it was OTP that hit me like a brick
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16:16 <harfangk> learning OTP is identical to learning how to do concurrent programming
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16:17 <harfangk> i guess it'd be much easier if you already knew foundations of concurrent programming
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16:36 <nox> "Developer happiness" sounds like snake oil.
16:37 <tax> could you survive in elixir without knowing too much erlang? (aside from OTP)
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16:41 <harfangk> nox it is :)
16:42 <nox> Then again, I work on a browser, so I forfeited any hope to access happiness through work obviously
16:42 <harfangk> that's why i prefer to talk about how elixir core team gives tooling and usability high priority when they develop language
16:43 <harfangk> at least that's what makes me happy so i'm not lying when i say "developer happiness" haha
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16:48 <harfangk> tax you won't be writing erlang code if you stick to elixir, but you will still be calling erlang libraries quite a lot. so you'll at least read some erlang code.
16:49 <nox> Note that much AFAIK.
16:49 <nox> Not*
16:49 <nox> I can't English anymore. ( ._.)
16:49 <harfangk> i guess it depends
16:50 <harfangk> i had to work with :binary and :crypto libraries a bit in my case
16:51 <nox> What did you do with :binary that wasn't in Elixir?
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16:54 <harfangk> trying to learn some basics of crypto stuff
16:54 <harfangk> decided to do it with elixir since i was learning it at the same time
16:59 <OliverMT> nox: do you think servo ever will be released like a mainstream browser like chrome/opera/firefox ?
16:59 <nox> OliverMT: We are already shipping major components of Servo in Firefox.
16:59 <OliverMT> 99% of stuff you would use in :binary is default imported through Kernel
16:59 <tax> sounds good
16:59 <OliverMT> ok, so my question is nonsensical?
16:59 <OliverMT> its more like servo will become firefox?
17:00 <OliverMT> I still dont quite understand what the overall goal of servo is.. basically implemnet a browser top down in rust?
17:00 <nox> OliverMT: We don't know yet, but in a few versions for example styling will be done with Rust code coming from Servo.
17:00 <harfangk> OliverMT didn't know that at the time, so i went straight for :binary haha
17:00 <nox> OliverMT: To implement a browser engine.
17:00 <OliverMT> are you just piggybacking on firefox gui?
17:00 <OliverMT> so servo == webkit
17:00 <OliverMT> more or less
17:00 <nox> The only thing we use from Firefox is the JS engine.
17:01 <OliverMT> I am using you as google now btw, hope you dont mind :D
17:01 <nox> Usually I would say it's not the right channel,
17:01 <nox> but who cares it's Sunday.
17:02 <Guest67_> :)
17:03 <OliverMT> it would be cool to use servo through rustler to do web parsing
17:03 <OliverMT> or maybe even rendering pdfs if servo has a print engine
17:04 <nox> We don't, for now.
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17:41 <travis-ci> elixir-lang/elixir#13828 (master - 5bd1e0c : Aleksei Magusev): The build passed.
17:41 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/elixir-lang/elixir/compare/5740e802e896...5bd1e0c1e1f3
17:41 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/elixir-lang/elixir/builds/210298030
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17:54 <travis-ci> elixir-lang/elixir#13831 (master - ed5c654 : Andrew Summers): The build passed.
17:54 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/elixir-lang/elixir/compare/5bd1e0c1e1f3...ed5c654f0321
17:54 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/elixir-lang/elixir/builds/210301176
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18:17 <fishcakez> LOL 16:42 <nox> Then again, I work on a browser, so I forfeited any hope to access happiness through work obviously.
18:17 <nox> :)
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18:22 <hakunin> elixir/phoenix doesn't seem very fast at websites
18:22 <hakunin> ^ did i just bait somebody to help me optimize? :)
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18:23 <embik> I can't help you bit I'm offended anyway
18:23 <embik> s/bit/but/g
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18:26 <hakunin> embik: 2 widely-used production apps over the last 2 years, i'm allowed to make this joke
18:26 <hakunin> :)
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18:27 <hakunin> i just re-launched the same app that was doing perfectly last year and it's performing a lot worse, i can't figure out why
18:27 <embik> maybe a db bottleneck? :P
18:27 <hakunin> same db (rds aurora)
18:28 <hakunin> i think the only difference is erlang 19.x
18:28 <hakunin> (other elixir deps are frozen at last year's versions mostly)
18:29 <embik> as said I literally have no idea what I'm talking about so yeah, that might be true, but you never know. You could try to test it on erlang 18.x :]
18:30 <hakunin> embik: no you already got my hopes high that you might help, so it'd be super awkward now if you don't help
18:31 <embik> hakunin: okay here's my super professional advice: You could sacrifice a virgin and see if that helps
18:32 <hakunin> i don't have richard branson's contact
18:32 <dch> hakunin: start with http://theerlangelist.com/article/phoenix_latency and see how far you get
18:34 <dch> TLDR are you benchmarking, o you have metrics in place, have you tried faking the DB results to see how much actual effort is simply occupied dealing with the backend, to start with
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18:35 <hakunin> dch: i have ran load tests pointed at /robots.txt to ensure there is literally nothing going on, just cowboy serving a static file, and it's starting to choke when you go from 2500 clients/sec to 3000 clients/sec, SYN_RECV goes up, but until that happens by ~15th sec of the test the response time stays at steady 1-2ms
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18:36 <hakunin> i have EC2 behind ELB, but I reconfigured ubuntu 16.04 to accept more connections and avoid ELB-level spillovers (increased backlogs and stuff)
18:36 <dch> I suspect that article will help a lot then to get your started, if this is your actual volume then no matter what framework or db or language you are using, you'll need to benchmark, understand, & optimise.
18:37 <dch> I am firmly in the space of using real servers outside AWS if you have real workloads. too much smoke & mirrors that you have no insight nor control over.
18:37 <hakunin> dch: this is the exact setup i had last year, and it worked at a lot higher rate, i did a ton of benchmarking and optimizing last year, and simply reproduced it this year, with the only differences being erlang 19.x and ubuntu 14.04 -> 16.04
18:37 <dch> anyway I'd suggest you start off with a setup like Sasa's in his excellent article, and see how it compares.
18:38 <dch> hakunin: it could also be you got a crappy machine in AWS with noisy neighbours... netflix discards all but 10% of the VMs they get in AWS due to scabby perf.
18:38 <hakunin> interesting
18:38 <dch> bbl, its the weekend
18:40 <dch> this will be of interest hakunin https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/08/11/how-netflix-tunes-ubuntu-on-ec2/ anything from Brendan Gregg is basically gold. http://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2015-03-03/performance-tuning-linux-instances-on-ec2.html also but similar ground covered.
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18:41 <dch> aah yes http://highscalability.com/blog/2016/1/11/a-beginners-guide-to-scaling-to-11-million-users-on-amazons.html there you go. This should basically convince you that bare metal is best :D
18:42 <hakunin> dch: his networking tuneups are very similar to what i tried
18:42 <hakunin> dch: oh i don't need convincing for that
18:42 <hakunin> but you don't build client projects on bare metal
18:44 <hakunin> well, nowadays maybe with something like https://www.packet.net, but in a consulting env you optimize for ease of boilerplate (ci, deployment)
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18:47 <hakunin> last year Chris (of house McCord) was helping me optimize production himself, and that was right around his ~2mil connections breakthrough, really weird that it's not there anymore, must be ec2's fault
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19:31 <dch> I've seen performance vary in OTP releases over time, also scheduler changes from R14 -> R15 + onwards have made a big difference.
19:33 <fishcakez> Did sendfile implementation change recently also?
19:34 <dch> & not always a +ve difference
19:36 <dch> fishcakez: yes for FreeBSD, which I care about https://github.com/erlang/otp/pull/841
19:36 <dch> idk for other platforms
19:37 <fishcakez> Sorry I meant in OTP
19:37 <fishcakez> It moved off async threads or something
19:37 <Yonk_> In regards to the docs `Sending email with Mailgun`, it favors the methodology of putting a file in `/var` but with heroku you can only write to `/tmp`. Would it be beneficial to note in the docs that heroku only works with `get_env`.
19:37 <fishcakez> Ah maybe that it was it my bad
19:37 <tax> thanks for the answers
19:38 <fishcakez> Oh maybe not
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19:38 <fishcakez> dch: I give up :)
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19:40 <dch> fishcakez: lol
19:40 <dch> was a time when I could keep up with the release notes, now i have kids so I just wing it and hope for the best
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20:22 <Zarathu> hi! writing some validations in an Ecto model. instead of wrapping some check in: if is_nil(get_field(changeset, :foo)), do: changeset, else: [validate foo here...]
20:23 <Zarathu> is it acceptable to use pattern-matching on the changeset data in the function header?
20:23 <Zarathu> e.g.:
20:23 <Zarathu> def validate_foo(%Ecto.Changeset{data: %{foo: nil}} = changeset), do: changeset
20:24 <Zarathu> eh, never mind. probably better to just do the rest in a private function
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20:29 <travis-ci> elixir-lang/elixir#13838 (master - 9b056af : Qqwy / Wiebe-Marten): The build passed.
20:29 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/elixir-lang/elixir/compare/ed5c654f0321...9b056af70d6a
20:29 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/elixir-lang/elixir/builds/210333347
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20:54 <travis-ci> elixir-lang/elixir#13840 (master - 526b1ce : Aleksei Magusev): The build passed.
20:54 <travis-ci> Change view : https://github.com/elixir-lang/elixir/compare/9b056af70d6a...526b1ce76b4d
20:54 <travis-ci> Build details : https://travis-ci.org/elixir-lang/elixir/builds/210339510
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21:02 <OliverMT> Can you emit html from a view function? If i enum.join on <br/> it just emits it escaped
21:03 <OliverMT> I guess it should be a composite template instead
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21:41 <asonge> OliverMT: {:safe, "foo"} will go through
21:41 <asonge> if it's passing through a template
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21:52 <asonge> josevalim: i've got a quick comedy tale for you, btw. it has to do with that recent patch to Elixir that caps the year at year 10k
21:52 <josevalim> tell me more :)
21:52 <josevalim> it is only on master afaik
21:53 <asonge> so, i'm messing with some crypto stuff right now for...reasons
21:53 <asonge> and i'm messing with openssh certificates and seeing how i might reuse some stuff from x.509 stuff
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21:54 <asonge> openssh stores dates as unix timestamps in seconds as uint64, and they support a maximum date of 0 x ffff ffff ffff ffff in it. because that's the same as not having a maximum date.
21:55 <asonge> i thought i crashed the VM when i was trying to format it as a date
21:55 <asonge> but it eventually came through.
21:55 <asonge> while it was chugging, i saw the patch, and was glad.
21:57 <asonge> i'm rerunning it now so i can get you a time on how long it takes to calculate the biggest uint64 unix timestamp there is.
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21:58 <asonge> 45.754965s in :timer.tc
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21:59 <OTC> hi, first day of elixir! I've managed to launch the debugger, and get it to break where my problem is. The "up" and "down" buttons are disabled though, any way I can enable going up and down the stack trace?
22:00 <Uniaika> OTC: which debugger? :debugger?
22:00 <OTC> yes :debugger
22:01 <OTC> I can see my code, the breakpoint, and local variables
22:01 <OTC> but I can't go up, to see where my method is being called
22:01 <OTC> so I need to :int.ni() the caller as well? and is there a more convenient way to just load everything in the debugger?
22:03 <OTC> any idea Uniaika?
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22:44 <OTC> anyone?
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23:10 <josevalim> asonge: oh wow, haha
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23:11 <josevalim> OTC: i haven't used the debugger that much to help here, sorry :(
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23:46 <Yonk_> @josevalim since I see you're active in the room can you help me understand something in the definition of the pattern matching?
23:48 <Yonk_> in the translate call i'm trying to understand what `S` is and `SR`. Is that an erlang convention?
23:49 <Yonk_> i assume it's string.. like string right and string left..
23:54 <iFire> fishcakez: pong
23:54 <Yonk_> i figured it out i think, sorry
23:54 <Yonk_> erlang is pretty cool
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